This is part 4 of our holy spirit series.
Today we continue to hear John Truitt and Greg Deuble discuss speaking in tongues. If you haven’t listened to the previous three episodes in this series, it would be good to do that before listening to this one. Also, if you want to get the most out of this bible-heavy discussion, you should read 1 Corinthians 14 prior to listening–and maybe also keep it open while you listen. These two go deep into the chapter to discuss this issue.
—— Links ——
- More about John Truitt’s ministry: Allegiance to the King
- More about Greg Deuble’s ministry: The Bible Jesus
- Here’s Deuble’s article, “Testing, Testing, One, Two…Nine!“
- If you’d like to support Restitutio, you can donate here.
- Leave a voice message via SpeakPipe with questions or comments
- Intro music: Good Vibes by MBB Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported (CC BY-SA 3.0) Free Download / Stream: Music promoted by Audio Library
Thank you for this presentaion. I found it very thought-provoking. I would like to say that until we see the inconsistent rendering of the words ‘glossa ‘ and ‘dialectos’ in most Bible versions corrected, we will not get a clear picture of the Biblical teaching on this subject. I suggest that the producers of lexicon and translators of most Bible versions have been influenced by charismatic hijacking of language. In addition, it seems that some scholars are so taken with their personal definition of ‘glossa ‘ as being ecstatic that they fail to include the seven usages of the term ‘glossa’ in the Book of Revelation as obviously referring to natural languages and, therefore, miss a relevant factor in their analysis of the subject of ‘tongues-speaking’ which is vital in understanding the situations in Acts and 1 Corinthians.
Hi, Patricia ;
Would you say that there may be an important difference between ‘glossolalia’ and (human ?) ‘languages’ ?
God bless you.
I would simply like to start by commending John, Greg, and Sean for engaging in a very kindhearted, civil dialogue about a controversial subject.
I also would like to state an observation about the overall context of 1st Corinthians, chapter 12. God (though being One giver) wisely distributes gifts, ministries (ways of serving), spiritual evidences with tremendous diversity – throughout the whole chapter. That is why the truth that not all are apostles, not all speak with “languages”, etc. (v. 28-30) is beautifully compatible with the flow of the whole chapter – where not all are a giant eyeball, nor are all an ear, etc., though each member is equally loved and important! When I, personally, formerly held to a divisively emphatic “tongues for all” theology, I had simply failed to see this simple, overall contextual truth.
The manifestation (singular) of the spirit being given to all in verse 7 (despite my previous misunderstanding) does not contradict this wide context of diversity by implying that the list of nine evidences (v. 8-11) is a “package” given to all!
God’s truth here is so non-divisive when the wider contextual factors are taken into account.
Hey Ken, I think you will enjoy the perspective that Victor will bring next week.
John Truitt,
Could you tell us the origin of “all 9 all the time”?
Most people do not know what that is.
Thanks.
Carlos,
I don’t know if that saying originated in the Way International or if they borrowed the phrase from some other source. It’s possible that it originated with BG Leonard from whom Victor Wierwille learned many of the things he taught about the gifts of the spirit. But it was a popular phrase in the Way and still is among some ex-Way groups. For clarity, it is a way of saying that a Christian has the ability through their own power of faith to operate the 9 ways the spirit manifests listed in 1 Cor 12:8-10. The phrase was used to encourage people to operate in all those ways all the time. It was used in contrast to the charismatic teaching that each Christian gets one gift.
God Bless,
John
John Truitt,
Do you know if “all 9 all the time” interpretation is unique to B.G. Leonard/Wierwille?
There is little information in the way of church history on who else might have followed this belief/practice.
And what little information there is seems to specifically go against this view.
Hippolytus, Apostolic Constitutions, book 8.
“It is not necessary that every one of the faithful should cast out demons, raise the dead, or speak with tongues.”
Ambrose, On the Duties of the Clergy, 2.150.
“The whole of the divine gifts cannot exist in each [sic] man.”
I’ve never found any info on another group teaching the same sort of “all 9 all the time” teaching. There are certainly many other groups that teach that people can manifest various gifts at various times but not in the sense that the Way taught where the believer is in complete control of the manifestation.
John
Thank you to John and Greg for being willing to have this discussion!
Can John further elaborate on his argument about the Greek words in 1 Corinthians 12:7-10? I think I followed his argument, but I got a little lost at the point where he said that the Greek words allo and hetero are not relative pronouns, but are creating categories so someone could still say that all the gifts are given “to each one.”
Specifically, I am not quite understanding the idea that hetero would indicate a different category of gifts and not a different person. And, I do appreciate that “word of wisdom” and “word of knowledge” are similar, but I’m not sure that I see the similarity between the gifts in the next “category” (starting with hetero in verse 9). Is it that they are all supposed to be gifts that fall under the manifestation of faith?
Also, I very much like Kenneth A. LaPrade’s comment above. Well said.
Hello John,
My view is that the phenomenon being spoken of throughout scripture is the supernatural ability to speak in a known foreign language which the speakers had not previously learned and that the modern day “glossolalia” is a learned behaviour. Furthermore, that by “language of ….angels” Paul was speaking with a degree of hyperbole. (after all, angels spoke to men in a language they could understand). We do not need a miraculous prayer language because, as Romans 8:26 tells us,” ….the spirit assists us in our weakness, because we don’t know what to pray for as we should. But the spirit itself intercedes for us with feelings too deep of words”.
Love in Christ.
I went to G. Deuble’s site and read about his experience with tongues. Let me say I really like Mr. Deuble. The tongues I have seen in the church have always seemed to come from the flesh. Same with being slain in the spirit. People were led astray by their pastor. I think if satan had any part in these experiences, it was just to set up this false religious experience. I think he wants to lead people away from trust in Jesus. I think people want to be a part of something special and mysterious. A spooky circus. I think the fake change in voices etc. were just part of the act as exorcism etc. Satan is more sophisticated and more dangerous. After a while I think these games get old. The flesh. You seek God, not experiences. ajc