People need the touch of God in their lives. People are broken, wounded, and sick. Jesus Christ has already come and made available deliverance from sin and its consequences. He did this throughout his ministry and continues to bring healing through his church today. Bob Carden shares about his own journey of faith from Catholicism to the Way Ministry to pastoring a non-denominational church in Naperville, IL. Now retired, he relates his decades-long pursuit of the miraculous, especially deliverance and healing. Now I realize this can be a controversial subject, which is why I’m so thankful for how Carden’s kind and compassionate tone comes through in this conversation.
Listen to this episode on Spotify or Apple Podcasts
—— Links ——
- Learn more about Bob Carden at Align Ministries
- Get Carden’s book, One God: The Unfinished Reformation
- Get the transcript of this episode
- Support Restitutio by donating here
- Join our Restitutio Facebook Group and follow Sean Finnegan on Twitter @RestitutioSF
- Leave a voice message via SpeakPipe with questions or comments and we may play them out on the air
- Intro music: Good Vibes by MBB Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported (CC BY-SA 3.0) Free Download / Stream: Music promoted by Audio Library.
- Who is Sean Finnegan? Read Sean’s bio here
enjoyed the podcast as always and Bob seems like an outstanding man but on the subject of healings a deviated septum, some shoulder injuries, spiritual healings of emotional spiritual trauma seem inadequate to demonstrate the power of God to me, from someone that has seen a 1000 people prayed for at our church without any results it’s frustrating to say the least from the lack of power release from the spirit—if that’s all the examples Bob has I still remain confused on the miraculous. I am not diminishing the accomplishments he has with the people he helped but as far as the miraculous seems to come up short. I come from a background of pentecostal influence who proclaim a lot of stuff that never seems to materialize and God knows i wanted it to but over and over no results. What are me missing I wish i knew, when the sick leave sick, MS, Lupus, Diabetes, ALS, cancer, and so on it ls hard to believe in the miraculous. Wonderful people, wonderful preachers that believe in it and love enough to seek God on our behalf but no results. 🥲. I see why people are cessationalists and develop hard hearts towards healing ministries
Oh boy, the healing ministries. I agree with you Sean, Bob sounds like a cool guy, but as far as the topic of the conversation itself, I must say it makes me feel quite uncomfortable. Now, I am not someone who is repelled by anything to do with miracles; it’s how I came to faith myself, actually. And I will occasionally find myself in some churches that have a more charismatic bend. But to go to Bill Johnson and Todd White, of all people, to learn about God’s miraculous gifts, that’s just unfathomable to me.
Anytime I hear anything from these guy all I feel is an instinctive drive to stay very far away from anything to do with them and all the people they like to associate and work with. And who are these people? Friends like Benny Hinn, ever encouraging grandmas across America to ‘sow a seed’ for their blessings that will surely follow; Todd Bentley, always ready to kick you in the face to drive those demons away, and of course all “those other things” I am not even going to mention here; Kenneth Copeland, White’s “mentor” and “spiritual father”; Brian Simmons, whom God imparted with secret Aramaic wisdom to rewrite the Bible, all just happens to align exactly with Bill and Todd’s theology–how convenient; and then there’s, of course, the great “general” William Branham their whole clique adores so much. Who would not want to be “anointed” with the same “mantle” of a “prophet” ordained by the National Imperial Wizard of the KKK? And of course, everyone’s a “prophet” or an “apostle” these days, so by definition anything they ever say must be unquestionably accepted as Gospel truth. Who would dare “touch the Lord’s anointed”?
I don’t enjoy naming all these folks, honestly, but who will hear of these people and think to go to them for any kind of spiritual wisdom whatever? These things are so absurd I am sure some will think I am exaggerating or just making things up. But no, it is not me making things up. I am not even from America and even still have I seen and heard enough from all of them to run right away from wherever these guys pop up.
And if one would think it unfair to get into the people they associate with, this isn’t some guilt by association fallacy. They all endorse one another and constantly organize themselves together within their group of NAR/prosperity network that they built. Regardless, it’s not like there isn’t plenty of troublesome material to discuss regarding Bill and Todd themselves. The strange “Physics of Heaven,” the political entanglements and the 7 Mountain Mandate, the labeling of criticism as “demonically inspired”…
Truly, to me, this is about the worst representation of Christianity one could find in our time.
It is no wonder to me that, in his introduction, Bob already has to provide us with some disclaimers; he only went to them for one thing–the healing–so let’s just not talk about any of the other stuff? Why not? Because we all know full well there is lots of other stuff to talk about here, and going into it will not be pleasant. But then, if this is the case, and even Bob seemingly is very aware of this, what’s with this reasoning that somehow their supposed healing abilities must yet be a useful source of learning for us? Is this an area where we do indeed see real fruit?
How is it that they are seemingly able to “miraculously” lengthen an unending amount of legs by half an inch, but never anything truly substantial. You know, something that would actually help someone. Maybe grow back a whole leg, maybe heal a paralyzed person? Or even something smaller; sure would be convenient if Bill could get rid of his glasses, wouldn’t it? No, there are of course lots of fantastical stories to share, but will we ever get to truly see any of it? Of course we know the answer to that already. God only lengthens legs anymore these days it seems, if you were to believe even that…
I am not really sure what to make of healing these days, along with some of the other “spiritual gifts.” I will pray for people, sure, and I even believe God can and occasionally will heal people. But at the same time, I never seem to come across anyone experiencing miracles like the ones Jesus performed. Raising people from the dead, giving sight to the blind, that kind of thing. What am I to conclude? I don’t know. But surely, and despite all their fanciful stories, will I never look to the likes of Bill Johnson and Todd White to find the answers.
Have I been too harsh here, too worked up? I am sorry, I have to admit it makes me feel, perhaps somewhat irrationally, frustrated. It is somewhat personal, too. I have friends like Bob, who have traveled all the way to Redding to be inspired and to learn. I have seen churches change because of it. It’s just, I am not comfortable at all with what it ended up looking like.
Thank you Sean and Bob for sharing this journey into healing ministry. I gleaned a couple of very useful truths for my own walk with God. Nevertheless, I do not see such a thing as a healing ministry in the scriptures.
Healing is joyful and liberating and encouraging and a glory to God to the one delivered, and all who hear their testimony, but it is still akin to arranging chairs on the deck of the Titanic. The most important thing that this ministry does is to love people and value people and pray for people. Those are the key components to the gospel, namely, “God loves you very much and wants you to be with him forever.” (John 3:116)
Elijah and Elisha and Jesus our Lord healed people. None of them had a healing ministry. They were all prophets: people who spoke for or from God. No one did this better than Jesus. He was a whole burnt offering to God. Every minute of his life was inspired by his Father. God needed the whole world throughout all ages to believe that Jesus was the son of God, the savior of the world for salvation’s sake: that they would be saved from their sin and the wrath to come. Healing is only limited, temporary salvation. Even Jesus did not have a healing ministry. He was sent to preach the gospel of the kingdom, and did that from the time he received holy spirit until he took his last breath.
Paul was likely his greatest apostle, and Peter also, but they did not have healing ministries. They had the ministry of Apostle, evangelist and/or teacher. Healing is a fruit of these ministries. God confirmed the efficacy of their doctrine by power, confirming the truth of their words by signs and miracles, often including healing.(Mark 16:20 and John 14:11).
I think that it is the ministry of reconciliation that brings forth healing. God’s goal is eternal salvation. Healing is a great component of that, but seeking God for healing is akin to Israel’s pursuit of God: They wanted the benefits of God, but they did not want and love God Himself. (Like the 9 lepers).
I am deeply grateful for this podcast, and hope to be preaching more and seeking to love and pray and preach more because of your sharing. Thank you very much.