Dustin Smith and Sam Tideman discuss whether people are conscious in the intermediate state (between death and resurrection). Interestingly, neither of them think the deceased are currently in heaven or hell. Smith affirms the sleep of the dead, seeing all the dead, whether good or bad, as unconscious and unaware of the passage of time. Tideman puts forward the idea that the souls of the dead are in a semi-conscious dreamlike state in a chamber called Sheol or Hades. Today is part one of their discussion in which both lay out their positions and then discuss Ecclesiastes 9.10 and Isaiah 14.9-11. This is part one of their conversation. Stay tuned for part two next week.
Dr. Dustin Smith currently serves as a New Testament scholar at Spartanburg Methodist College in South Carolina. Smith has authored or edited six books, including the 2024 monograph, Wisdom Christology in the Gospel of John. He is also the weekly host of the Biblical Unitarian Podcast.
Sam Tideman is a Harvard educated data scientist at Google who has keen interests in biblical studies, theology, and especially church history. He hosts the YouTube channel, “Transfigured,” which has a total of nearly 250k views with interesting guests like Tim Mackie, Alister McGrath, and John Vervaeke.
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- More about Dustin Smith here
- More about Sam Tideman here
- Check out these other episodes discussing the intermediate state
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Thank you for this series on the Kingdom Journey. I also loved the book. Sam and Dustin are so knowledgeable I have to admit that I was lost for a few of the parts. Here are some basic questions.
Dustin starts off by clarifying that he would like to focus on the Person, not on the body or spirit or breath. But the Person was not defined. What is the person if not the body and spirit? Doesn’t it make sense to distinguish between the body and spirit? Does Sam use a different definition?
Also both Dustin and Sam do not distinguish between the righteous and unrighteous or those that die before the resurrection and after Jesus is resurrected. Is this their position, that there is no difference when it comes to determining where the body or soul goes after death?
Finally they seem to be referencing slides. Are these available?