I’d like to take an opportunity to interrupt this Scripture and Science class. We’ve just done three episodes on evolution. The first one covered the basics of what evolution is. Our second teaching evolution covered biblical problems and the third surveyed some scientific problems. Then Will interviewed Sam about his beliefs in both Christianity and evolution. I figured we’d just leave it there and move on to hear what Will had to say about geology. But after seeing various comments coming in, I decided it would be good to interject some of my own thoughts both defending my reasons for honestly engaging with evolution as well as my reasons for still not believing in it.
My reasons:
- Lack of evidence for evolution
- Problem of first life
- Mutations as an inadequate mechanism
- Humans ill-adapted for survival
- Allegorical readings of Genesis are ad hoc
- Evolution undermines the Fall
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I have enjoyed Will Barlow’s science and the Bible lectures. I tend to take the Genesis story quite literally, but I believe that there are many things that scientists of all stripes have yet to learn and deal with. Things like quantum physics, the electrical effects on cosmology and biology, ancient history and oop-art (out-of-place artifacts) like massive ancient structures, buried and submerged artifacts, ancient cosmological observation recordings, and the list goes on.
A lot of the differences within science depend on the initial presuppositions of time. If a person presupposes long ages of time, then the data gets interpreted in that framework. And, conversely, if someone like me believes in shorter time spans, then the data gets interpreted accordingly.
The more I learn about time, the more I suspect that there are occasions when time is vastly accelerated, like in the initial creation of matter (God’s big bang), and then there may be occasions or locations when time is completely stopped, like in the creation of life. When dealing with life, it seems to require that all the components of life must be set in place, frozen in time, and then time gets turned on. But of course, this is purely speculative. There is so much we do not know, and we should always admit this up front.
Can a Christian believe in evolution? Probably, as I do think that God will be somewhat forgiving of our ignorance, and, provided that the evolution idea is not used as a basis to live contrary to God’s moral standards. I just know that I will not be the final judge.
You make some good points, Kevin;
In addition, you say : “I do think that God will be somewhat forgiving of our ignorance’.
I hope so, because no morally faulty human being can claim to be intellectual perfect, and furthermore, only God can decide who technically, are ‘ignorant’ – the ‘Evolutionists’, and/or the ‘Special Creationists’, and/or the ‘Progressive Creationists’. Time will tell !
What’s sad about those comments is that they sound like how trinitarians react to us. They don’t even see they’re behaving the exact same way. Same thing in regards to satan and demons. In another note Indecided to try out that show “Alone”.
Thank you so much for the entire discussion here. I am experienced in science and work in medicine as a profession, which I say only to give context to my comments. I apologize in advance for how pedantic my comment will sound, but I feel really strongly about this subject.
The majority of my friends and acquaintances are from work or previous training because it is very difficult to find like-minded individuals in church groups close enough to attend.
The overwhelming majority of doctors and biomedical scientists I know immediately stop listening to any Christian evangelism because most Christians are not educated in science (often referring to science as some sort of witchcraft—which is exampled here), and science people cannot relate to them. It is impossible to dispute, or even discuss, something you don’t understand.
If you don’t understand even the basics of molecular and cellular biology, genetics, and even human physiology, you are completely ineffective (even silly) in discussions of evolution—or other bioscience topics, like medical treatments, vaccines, and antibiotics. Sure you can have an opinion, but if I know you have never learned the basics of human creation, then your opinion really doesn’t influence me.
And you certainly won’t convince anybody to investigate the gospel if they think you don’t understand their world or care enough to get educated to discuss it. How brazen is it to walk into people’s lives, know nothing about what they believe or understand, then start sweeping your hand over them, “You’re all wrong. All of this, it’s all wrong…”
So in regard to “science people,” Christians have two choices: abandon them entirely or learn something about that which they understand and believe — the same way that Christians learn to engage with Catholics, Muslims, and injection drug users —all of whom are considered “worthy” to the evangelical Christian reformer. Are those trained in science not also worthy, if harder to reach?
To just walk away, throw your hands in the air, and say “well THAT’S all ungodly! No ‘real’ Christian investigates or talks of this witchcraft!” is cowardice and intellectually lazy.
Lastly, Yahweh is the author of this universe. The observations (right or wrong) that we make of His creation and call “science” can be another way of chasing Him.
You make some interesting points, Candace, but are you essentially saying that :
(1). The only people who are really qualified to give an informed and honest opinion on the Evolution debate are probably ethical Theists, who have both a ‘Masters’ and a Doctorate degree in subjects like Molecular Biology?
(2). That any honest Christians who has been fully scientifically ‘enlightened’, will have no option but to become some form of Evolutionist?
God bless you, Candace.
Hi John,
Thanks for the comments.
I’m actually not saying that at all.
I guess I could be more succinct and say it this way:
1. I believe in complete agency, and people can believe and say whatever they want regardless of what they know about a situation. These individuals are unlikely to influence others in situations where others know more facts about a subject, especially if the less learned person insists on repeating wrong information. It’s been my experience that these individuals actually can have negative influences with others.
2. People who desire to discuss this subject can, and should, learn the basics of the science so that they can have an educated exchange. Instead, often I see individuals gas off with perspectives that are, frankly, silly, because they are so ignorant. And worse, they then seem not to care that they are saying ignorant things. Then, there is often some kind of disparaging follow up about how scientist I can to witchcraft. This is just not profitable and is avoidable.
As non-Trinitarians, generally, we dislike this form of engagement from Catholics and protestants in matters regarding church history. It’s just the same.
3. As a person of science and medicine, I am not an evolutionist either.
Hi, Candace,
Thanks for comments – which I fully agree with; And as the saying goes :
“Opinions are free, but facts are sacred”.
Because of deficiencies in my knowledge of subjects like cellular and molecular biology, my basic attitude to the ‘Special Creationism’ / ‘Progressive Creationism’ v’s ‘Evolutionism’ debate is one of ‘Reverent agnosticism’ ! However, It wouldn’t effect my Christian faith if (Theistic) Evolution turned out to be completely, scientifically indisputable, because (as I see it) the resurrection of Christ relativizes all other matters into comparative insignificance (cf. 1 Cor. 15:14).
As a person of science and medicine, can I possibly ask how you personally see these issues?
God bless you, Candace.
Hi, Candace;
To simplify the question :
‘Creationism’ or ‘Progressive Creationism’?
Any further comment?
Yahweh God bless you.