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ow much control should Christian groups exercise over their people? Should people be free to research and diverge from past ways of thinking? In this interview, I talk with William Barlow who grew up in the Way International, but ran into problems when he started suggesting changes to the administrators at the Way Corps leadership training program. After three and a half years of attending, when he was just a few months from graduation, they dismissed him from the program, dashing his dreams of becoming a minister. Thankfully his story did not end there.
—— Links ——
- Visit studydrivenfaith.org to read articles and listen to teachings by William Barlow
- Get in touch via email: william.a.barlow@gmail.com
- Check out LHIM free online classes
- Intro music: Good Vibes by MBB Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported (CC BY-SA 3.0) Free Download / Stream: Music promoted by Audio Library
Sean,
Thanks for taking the time to address my comment and laying out Darrell Bock’s references.
Yes, GENEA “as a reference to this TYPE or KIND of people,” as in Luke 16.8b:
“The sons of this age are more shrewd in relation to their own kind [GENEA] than the sons of light.” (Cp. Mar 8.38)
NOTE the parallel in the very next verse: “this generation” = “heaven and earth.”
In other words, “this generation/heaven and earth will not pass away UNTIL….”
Thanks, Sean and Will,
For sharing this conversation about Way experiences and doctrinal factors.
Your comments invite me to compare both similarities and differences between your generation’s struggles and the previous generation’s situation (the times of your young parents and me.)
I’m glad you mentioned the cruel dilemma of autocratic control – and its persistence among many leaders. A lot of this oppressive, papal mindset stems from legendary Way folklore about Dr. Wierwille having received a promise in 1942 – of being offered “the rightly-divided Word” (as a package deal) as it had not been known since the first century. This “event” was greatly emphasized in the original PFAL class taught by V.P.W. and in translations of it, and its prominence permeated an atmosphere of giddy exuberance with increasingly destructive fear.
From that exalted experiential basis of a supposed 1942 iconic event, to question “the rightly-divided Word” as delivered by VPW was considered to be an unacceptable questioning of God Himself (in a terribly totalitarian way.)
Though I, like many others, have great memories of good-hearted camaraderie among my peers of the 1970s and 1980s, I later saw the devastating fruit of those who stayed badly stuck in dispensationalism (and OSAS assumptions) for decades. I will share a bit more in a later comment.
One can read about the enthusiastic mindset of the early 1970s, based largely on VPW’s experiential journey, in The Way: Living in Love by Elena Whiteside (which consists of interviews in 1972, including a long interview with Victor Paul Wierwille.
One can read about controlling abuse and how “research” standards were slowly and subtly sabotaged during the seventies and eighties in: Undertow by Charlene L. Edge.
Another well-documented book (full of meticulous interviews with many folks) is The Cult That Snapped by Karl Kahler. [This book might be hard to find.]
A heartbreaking personal narrative is: Losing the Way: A Memoir of Spiritual Longing, Manipulation, Abuse, and Escape by Kristen Skedgell.
One last observation: there are still some ex-Way leaders from my generation (who might currently distance themselves from a “Way” identification), but who will be very quick and controlling to lash out angrily at those who speak up frankly about certain old, erroneous status quo Way norms. I suggest we pray to be able to help them.
Hi Sean.
Indeed, Darrell Bock does give an impressive survey of the different possible explanations for Jesus’ imminent saying in the Olivet Discourse. Though he does have a preferred option – the last on his list, which is pretty much your preferred interpretation –, he doesn’t seem really sure if it’s better than a couple of the other options, and he doesn’t seem entirely convinced about any of them. Even though he kind of does in an indirect way, I don’t think he really addresses the major problem with this view, which as I’ve already said, is the use of the demonstrative pronoun “this, hautE”, rather than “that, ekeinE”. And more seriously, he neglects in the whole of his survey, to mention all the other imminent sayings, both by Jesus, and by others in the Bible. I think it is a mistake to consider this logion, or any of the other imminent logia, in isolation.
I’m sorry I use different forms of my name in different comments. I like to make the length of my name tally with the length of my comment. ). David Seaborn-Jones is a long name, if the comment is short.
That was an interesting view from the inside of the Way International, which seems like a bit of a cult, following a self-confident founder. I found William Barlow’s allusion to the question of what Jesus is now doing in heaven, interesting.
All the best.
William’s 100 points sounds an awful lot like Luther and his 95 thesis.
William, You did a splendid job of both portraying the ongoing degradation of The Way, and for me, confirming that you and I so clearly simply outgrew the lamentable narrow-mindedness, inflexibility, and resulting corruption that has penetrated and locked down their organization for some time.
If you don’t mind, I’d like to take you up on your offer to send you pertinent papers, teachings, etc., that you might find helpful in reaching out to others either from – or still in – their organization. I thank God for your continued spiritual growth, and for making the difficult decisions to not be deterred from continued learning of the truth and service to our lord Jesus Christ.
I’ll attach it to a separate email to the address you provided. God bless you and yours.
Will and Sean, there’s no way to tell you how blessed to hear Questioning”!
I took PFAL in 1976 and went on to the intermediate and advanced classes. I
Did have a problem with control and eventually left but there was nothing to go to. Thank you and God Bless you for your stand. I do listen to LHIM and STF.
Love you to you all,
Claire
Most honest reply,
I have been involved since 1976 and compared to what is available it is still the best. Dr. Taught that every generation is responcible to keep the integrity of the Word lets just do our part and have the truth ready for those who want it.
Steve
This is exactly what my dad told me when they brought me into their offices and reamed me, bringing my friends and acquaintances in as witnesses to how horrible I was… simply because I had mentioned VPW’s teachings being more dynamic than Rosalie’s and going to a fellowship of a splinter group. This was around 2007-08.
I quit the ministry on the spot, and eventually my father followed suit after seeing how liberated I was. My mom left to go to a splinter group for a while, but is still fellowshipping with these people. Now I realize that VPW was a snake oil salesman. Do yourself a favor and jump ship; the truth of reality is not monopolistically held by an organization that was run into the ground by a sexual deviant. Trust me.
Hello, this is Charlene L. Edge, mentioned in the comment by Kenneth. I’m the author of Undertow: My Escape from the Fundamentalism and Cult Control of The Way International.
You can find me at https://charleneedge.com
My latest blog is
https://charleneedge.com/former-way-devotees-endorse-undertow/
Thank you for this very interesting podcast. During the 1970s and 1980s, I knew Sean’s parents.