While scrolling through Facebook, I came across Charles Mathewes’ Washington Post article, “White Christianity is in big trouble. And it’s its own biggest threat.” At first reading, I was infuriated at what I felt were unfair criticisms, but after I thought about it, I realized what an opportunity this article presented. It collects together no less than thirteen criticisms against Christianity. In this episode Dan Fitzsimmons, Rose Rider, and I (Sean Finnegan) respond to the first seven, including:
Our society’s war on Christmas bothers Christians
A Christian baker refused to sell a cake for a gay wedding
80% of white evangelicals in Alabama voted for a pedophile
We’re ignorant of history
We’re ignorant of the current state of the world
We’re ignorant about scientific knowledge
We’re surprisingly ignorant about our own religion
Not sure I find that much wrong with the author’s comments. One of the keys to Roy Moore’s issue and one I find rather common in many evangelical pushes is his lack of admission, confession, and remorse when confronted with overwhelming evidence. Another disturbing thing was the willingness for many evangelicals to put their politics (of this world) above Jesus’ teachings. Enjoyed the discussion. God’s peace.
Thank you all for sharing this discussion; there were some very insightful comments, great points and thoughts expressed as usual. I am, however of the opinion that the writer’s article may have been taken too personally by you all and I’ll explain why further on. One fact I want to express is that all who call themselves Christians are not abiding by and serving in alignment with Christ and God’s word. Let’s face it – the writer of this issue is not alone in his view points; there have been a multitude of articles written, increasingly this past year, about the “hypocrisy of evangelicals”…just google it and you’ll see. I probably would not have limited it to “white evangelicals” as there are so called evangelicals of all races and denominations that have come forward with their support of people and things that promote nothing Godly, but I’ll let the statistics stand if accurate. Roy Moore touted a gun in one hand and a Bible in the other — we have to do our homework before we lump ourselves together with everyone that calls themselves people of faith and God. Matthew 7:15-20 tells us that we will know them by their fruit.
As believers of Christ we also understand the current political rulership of this world lies in the hands of men that will not bring about peace, love and justice for all. I know you have posted follow-on discussions but I haven’t listened to those yet, so perhaps in those you have expanded the conversation to include some of these very same thoughts. I’ve actually heard newscasters ask why would evangelicals want to align themselves with supporting candidates that may have strongly alleged sexual misconduct charges made against them, who are racists, or are pushing laws that hurt the working class, by removing affordable health care, social security, various beneficial programs, etc. and the answer was “mostly because of their pro-life stance”. I am pro-life from both a personal and religious standpoint, but are these evangelicals to discard all the other laws that those very same candidates do support, that are against God’s word, i.e., promoting war, upholding the death penalty, removing benefits that stand to help people, regardless of their race or socioeconomic status? We have to be very careful as Christians, particularly when we align with and look to the politicians of this world for changes vs looking at the example and commands of Jesus and his heavenly Father’s word and His ultimate plan and promise for mankind! Colossians 2:8 tells us: See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
So as I initially stated, I felt his article was taken too personally – I believe that you were trying of defend Christianity as a whole but remember that we’re also told of false prophets – were we not warned in 2 Timothy 3:1-5 to: 3 realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. 2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, [a]haters of good, 4 treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding to a form of [b]godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. I’m not judging all evangelicals but the writing of these articles about many of them show us that indeed, the world is watching and even the “world” holds evangelicals to higher moral, human and ethical standards. Christians are to stand apart. If the things written about these evangelicals don’t apply to you, your faith, service, worship and dedication to God then it’s not applicable to your Christianity. We don’t have to try and defend or explain “their” behavior – let them show their fruit – we have to continue to share with people the truth about what God has in store for mankind and the kind of world that lies ahead for those that seek to serve God in spirit and truth and put their faith in the one and only ruler who will bring about peace and end suffering and injustice for mankind.
I am coming to this discussion a bit late, however, as a resident of Colorado I am better acquainted with the Masterpiece Cakeshop issue than those outside Colorado. The issue is not religious freedom, it is that Jack Philips violated Colorado’s anti-discrimination law. While I can understand Philips’ stance, I disagree with it because his only criteria was a wedding cake for a gay couple. He does not have a problem baking wedding cakes for adulterers, this makes him a hypocrite who is judging a couple who are not Christians in violation of 1 Corinthians 5:12-13. Also, while Scripture is clear that same-sex relationships are sin and abomination, Scripture is also clear that adultery is sin and abomination (Leviticus 18:20 with vs 26-30, Luke 16:18). In other words, Philips is inconsistent in what Scriptures to apply and what Scriptures to ignore.
I also find it necessary to take exception to Sean’s bemoaning the secularization of America, as this nation was founded as a secular nation. The whole Christian nation movement was birthed in the mid 19th century and is promoted by revisionists such as David Barton, who btw is not a historian. I highly recommend a site titled Wall of Separation Between Church and State, which is maintained by Baptist Bruce T. Gourley, who has a PhD in history from Auburn University. How many times have you heard or read that Thomas Jefferson coined the phrase “wall of separation between church and state”? The real originator of this phrase was Roger Williams the first Baptist preacher in the colonies and founder of Rhode Island.
I also must take exception to Sean’s comment about Maryland being a Catholic colony. While Maryland was founded as a Catholic colony, in 1694 England’s anti-Catholic laws were extended to the colonies and Catholicism was outlawed. American’s are woefully ignorant of the history of this nation.
While scrolling through Facebook, I came across Charles Mathewes’ Washington Post article, “White Christianity is in big trouble. And it’s its own biggest threat.” At first reading, I was infuriated at what I felt were unfair criticisms, but after I thought about it, I realized what an opportunity this article presented. It collects together no less than thirteen criticisms against Christianity. In this episode Dan Fitzsimmons, Rose Rider, and I (Sean Finnegan) respond to the first seven, including:
Roy Moore was running for the U.S. Senate; not for governor.
Appreciated this discussion!
Not sure I find that much wrong with the author’s comments. One of the keys to Roy Moore’s issue and one I find rather common in many evangelical pushes is his lack of admission, confession, and remorse when confronted with overwhelming evidence. Another disturbing thing was the willingness for many evangelicals to put their politics (of this world) above Jesus’ teachings. Enjoyed the discussion. God’s peace.
Thank you all for sharing this discussion; there were some very insightful comments, great points and thoughts expressed as usual. I am, however of the opinion that the writer’s article may have been taken too personally by you all and I’ll explain why further on. One fact I want to express is that all who call themselves Christians are not abiding by and serving in alignment with Christ and God’s word. Let’s face it – the writer of this issue is not alone in his view points; there have been a multitude of articles written, increasingly this past year, about the “hypocrisy of evangelicals”…just google it and you’ll see. I probably would not have limited it to “white evangelicals” as there are so called evangelicals of all races and denominations that have come forward with their support of people and things that promote nothing Godly, but I’ll let the statistics stand if accurate. Roy Moore touted a gun in one hand and a Bible in the other — we have to do our homework before we lump ourselves together with everyone that calls themselves people of faith and God. Matthew 7:15-20 tells us that we will know them by their fruit.
As believers of Christ we also understand the current political rulership of this world lies in the hands of men that will not bring about peace, love and justice for all. I know you have posted follow-on discussions but I haven’t listened to those yet, so perhaps in those you have expanded the conversation to include some of these very same thoughts. I’ve actually heard newscasters ask why would evangelicals want to align themselves with supporting candidates that may have strongly alleged sexual misconduct charges made against them, who are racists, or are pushing laws that hurt the working class, by removing affordable health care, social security, various beneficial programs, etc. and the answer was “mostly because of their pro-life stance”. I am pro-life from both a personal and religious standpoint, but are these evangelicals to discard all the other laws that those very same candidates do support, that are against God’s word, i.e., promoting war, upholding the death penalty, removing benefits that stand to help people, regardless of their race or socioeconomic status? We have to be very careful as Christians, particularly when we align with and look to the politicians of this world for changes vs looking at the example and commands of Jesus and his heavenly Father’s word and His ultimate plan and promise for mankind! Colossians 2:8 tells us: See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
So as I initially stated, I felt his article was taken too personally – I believe that you were trying of defend Christianity as a whole but remember that we’re also told of false prophets – were we not warned in 2 Timothy 3:1-5 to: 3 realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. 2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, [a]haters of good, 4 treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding to a form of [b]godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. I’m not judging all evangelicals but the writing of these articles about many of them show us that indeed, the world is watching and even the “world” holds evangelicals to higher moral, human and ethical standards. Christians are to stand apart. If the things written about these evangelicals don’t apply to you, your faith, service, worship and dedication to God then it’s not applicable to your Christianity. We don’t have to try and defend or explain “their” behavior – let them show their fruit – we have to continue to share with people the truth about what God has in store for mankind and the kind of world that lies ahead for those that seek to serve God in spirit and truth and put their faith in the one and only ruler who will bring about peace and end suffering and injustice for mankind.
I am coming to this discussion a bit late, however, as a resident of Colorado I am better acquainted with the Masterpiece Cakeshop issue than those outside Colorado. The issue is not religious freedom, it is that Jack Philips violated Colorado’s anti-discrimination law. While I can understand Philips’ stance, I disagree with it because his only criteria was a wedding cake for a gay couple. He does not have a problem baking wedding cakes for adulterers, this makes him a hypocrite who is judging a couple who are not Christians in violation of 1 Corinthians 5:12-13. Also, while Scripture is clear that same-sex relationships are sin and abomination, Scripture is also clear that adultery is sin and abomination (Leviticus 18:20 with vs 26-30, Luke 16:18). In other words, Philips is inconsistent in what Scriptures to apply and what Scriptures to ignore.
I also find it necessary to take exception to Sean’s bemoaning the secularization of America, as this nation was founded as a secular nation. The whole Christian nation movement was birthed in the mid 19th century and is promoted by revisionists such as David Barton, who btw is not a historian. I highly recommend a site titled Wall of Separation Between Church and State, which is maintained by Baptist Bruce T. Gourley, who has a PhD in history from Auburn University. How many times have you heard or read that Thomas Jefferson coined the phrase “wall of separation between church and state”? The real originator of this phrase was Roger Williams the first Baptist preacher in the colonies and founder of Rhode Island.
I also must take exception to Sean’s comment about Maryland being a Catholic colony. While Maryland was founded as a Catholic colony, in 1694 England’s anti-Catholic laws were extended to the colonies and Catholicism was outlawed. American’s are woefully ignorant of the history of this nation.