This is the transcript of Restitutio episode 667: How God Healed Me from the Shame of Prostitution with Mina Hacker This transcript was auto-generated and only approximates the contents of this episode. Audio file 667 Mina Hacker.mp3 Transcript 00:01 Sean Finnegan Hey there, I'm Sean Finnegan and you are listening to Restitudio, a podcast that seeks to recover authentic Christianity and live it out today. 00:12 Sean Finnegan Mina grew up in a poor village in South Korea in the 1950s. 00:16 Sean Finnegan She faced many hardships due to her abusive alcoholic father who loaned her to another family to work as a servant. 00:24 Sean Finnegan Although Mina escaped from that situation, she found herself in something much worse. 00:30 Sean Finnegan She got entrapped by sex traffickers and forced to work as a prostitute. 00:35 Sean Finnegan The crushing shame from these experiences followed her through life even after she escaped to America and married a soldier. 00:43 Sean Finnegan Only when she became a Christian and started reading the Bible did she find the healing she desperately needed. 00:50 Sean Finnegan Here now is episode 667, How God Healed Me from the Shame of Prostitution with Mina Hacker. 01:05 Sean Finnegan With me is Mina Hacker from my own church here in Latham, New York. 01:12 Sean Finnegan And she has quite a story to share with us. 01:15 Sean Finnegan I don't want to say too much about it up front other than to say that she's been a Christian for a very long time and has been part of the church here where I am a pastor for quite some time as well. 01:26 Sean Finnegan And 01:26 Sean Finnegan I just want to welcome you, Mina, to Restitudio. 01:29 Sean Finnegan Thanks for joining me today. 01:31 Mina Hacker Well, thank you, Sean, for having me here and giving me this opportunity to share. 01:38 Mina Hacker And I hope today my sharing will deliver people what God wants to be. 01:43 Sean Finnegan Yeah. 01:44 Sean Finnegan So why don't we start by hearing how it all began. 01:49 Sean Finnegan Tell us about your growing up in South Korea and what your life was like in the early years. 01:56 Mina Hacker I grew up in South Korea in a farmland. 02:00 Mina Hacker My parents were farmers and I born around 1950 and which called war baby. 02:12 Mina Hacker So by the time I grew up and to be able to understand and what's going on and Korea was really still in devastated 02:24 Mina Hacker state and economically in many ways. 02:29 Mina Hacker So anyway, people were in hardship and I born in the middle of it and that was my childhood. 02:38 Mina Hacker When I was about ready to go to elementary school, in the culture of where I grew up, 02:48 Mina Hacker And all the fathers did not believe that, girls to go to school. 02:54 Mina Hacker So it was kind of like breaking through with a new movement that, the schools built in the country and people start sending, the advice people to send girls to school. 03:17 Mina Hacker But my father, 03:18 Mina Hacker was very strict and I should say my father was alcoholic. 03:26 Mina Hacker He wasn't an alcoholic and he was really abusive on his children. 03:36 Mina Hacker And we were kind of like, when we grew up, we were kind of like child slavery. 03:44 Sean Finnegan Yeah. 03:45 Sean Finnegan And how many kids were there growing up together, living in the house? 03:50 Mina Hacker My father had, my parents had four sons, four sons and four daughters. 04:00 Mina Hacker Two of my brother died. 04:03 Mina Hacker One, the first one died four years old, and another one died seven years old. 04:11 Mina Hacker And. 04:13 Sean Finnegan Was it because of poverty or disease or accidents? 04:16 Mina Hacker Poverty and disease and those days is just simple diarrhea you can die from. 04:23 Mina Hacker Yeah. 04:24 Mina Hacker There were no penicillin and no medicine to treat. 04:29 Mina Hacker I grew up in a place that there were no doctors, no hospital, and 04:39 Mina Hacker we have to grow everything and there were no store, and so anyway, that's kind of give you idea, it's what was look like anyway. 04:56 Mina Hacker I know my parents were in a hardship and we all have to work 05:06 Mina Hacker But my father was exceptionally abusive because he, every time he drinks and he changed it into a different person. 05:17 Mina Hacker I don't know anybody saw a movie called I Can Only Imagine. 05:24 Mina Hacker And when you see in that movie that father, my father was not any less abusive. 05:33 Mina Hacker But then 05:34 Mina Hacker what that father was in a movie. 05:38 Mina Hacker So that gives you a new idea of, so we grew up with a really fearful of a father and my mother of course trying to protect us whole time. 05:52 Mina Hacker So I go further what was like in like a religious matter there. 06:04 Mina Hacker It was like, I mean, nobody heard name Jesus in that town. 06:13 Mina Hacker Nobody knew, nobody heard about it, nobody know about it. 06:18 Mina Hacker But it was Buddhist, but it's like, you know, we didn't know, nobody really teach about Buddhist, but it's more like, 06:30 Mina Hacker superstition. 06:32 Mina Hacker we live ghosts and, people die. 06:37 Mina Hacker They, your ancestor live on, spirit lives on. 06:42 Mina Hacker So, things like that. 06:45 Mina Hacker So that kind of condition that we grow up. 06:51 Sean Finnegan At some point during your childhood, you got sent away to work for someone else. 06:56 Sean Finnegan Tell a little bit about that and what that was like. 07:00 Sean Finnegan How old were you when that happened? 07:02 Mina Hacker Okay, that was, I was about teenager, probably 16, maybe 15, 16, around that age. 07:15 Mina Hacker And my father decided to take me to somewhere around some city and some rich people 07:27 Mina Hacker and one or two middle work there. 07:30 Mina Hacker So I was, my father brought me there and dropped me there and he left. 07:37 Mina Hacker And this was first time I ever left my home from the family, my hometown. 07:45 Mina Hacker So anyway, then I realized they were giving me a lot of work. 07:53 Mina Hacker I was 07:54 Mina Hacker I realized I was still a slave, except I didn't get any pay. 08:01 Mina Hacker Nobody pays me, but those days, we don't question. 08:08 Mina Hacker Girls, especially girls, don't question. 08:11 Mina Hacker And so I kind of figured, well, maybe my parents didn't have 08:21 Mina Hacker enough food to feed us all. 08:23 Mina Hacker So maybe that's why he sent me to this house so that I can, someone can feed me and live on. 08:36 Mina Hacker Then later, after I grew up, later years, I looked back and I started questioning why did my father do that? 08:50 Mina Hacker And I realized, nobody answered me. 08:56 Mina Hacker None of my siblings answered me, older siblings. 09:00 Mina Hacker They should know, but they didn't want to hurt me, so they didn't answer. 09:06 Mina Hacker So anyway, put everything together. 09:09 Mina Hacker I'm not really sure, but I think he saw me there and he got the money for his whatever, you know, his drinking. 09:22 Sean Finnegan So what kind of work did you do for these people? 09:24 Sean Finnegan And did you live at that house or you went home at night? 09:27 Mina Hacker Yes, I'm living in that house and I was living with the older couple. 09:33 Mina Hacker They were, they had pharmaceutical, the older men that have the household of older men had a couple of sons. 09:50 Mina Hacker And he was a pharmaceutical doctor. 09:55 Mina Hacker And they were like, I had to cook for them, I had to do laundry for them, dishes and food, cleaning. 10:06 Mina Hacker It's like, one of his son was anesthesia in the hospital nearby. 10:16 Mina Hacker And also his wife, 10:19 Mina Hacker And, but they didn't, they couldn't have any children, so they adopted a little baby. 10:27 Mina Hacker And the older couple, their parents were like Christian. 10:32 Mina Hacker And that's the first time I heard about, the Jesus. 10:38 Mina Hacker And, but they, she was an elder of Presbyterian Church. 10:45 Mina Hacker And 10:46 Mina Hacker We go there. 10:47 Mina Hacker I go there because only because I care, this baby. 10:52 Mina Hacker They adopt. 10:56 Mina Hacker But I was never really sitting with them. 11:00 Mina Hacker I was treated like, I was not fit into that crowd. 11:06 Sean Finnegan You were a servant. 11:07 Sean Finnegan You weren't an equal. 11:09 Mina Hacker Yeah. 11:10 Sean Finnegan How many years was this situation for you? 11:16 Sean Finnegan And what ages were you? 11:17 Sean Finnegan Do you remember? 11:20 Mina Hacker I probably about a year, but since back then it was like trillion years, because it was, I was teenager and I was really crushed. 11:36 Mina Hacker my self-confidence just way down, I was nothing but just working. 11:42 Mina Hacker endure slaves. 11:43 Mina Hacker I mean, you slave or you just do whatever they told you to do. 11:49 Mina Hacker I mean, afterwards, I just couldn't believe that after I become a Christian, that, older lady was Christian and elders in a church, but she was not even considered 12:10 Mina Hacker wanted to tell me about salvation. 12:15 Mina Hacker Oh. 12:15 Mina Hacker but only thing I heard was when she was like trying to put baby sleep, she sang, Jesus loves me this I know song. 12:26 Speaker 3 Okay. 12:27 Mina Hacker I mean, I'm kind of not ahead of what I was gonna say, but after I become a Christian, first 12:40 Mina Hacker conference, first gathering, area meeting at the time, the people meeting, and went there. 12:49 Mina Hacker First, I mean, I didn't know any Christian songs at the time, but this particular meeting, first meeting I went, they sang Jesus Loves Me in English, but I knew that song. 13:07 Mina Hacker And I just break down, cry. 13:10 Mina Hacker That was kind of neat. 13:11 Speaker 3 Wow. 13:12 Sean Finnegan So you were there working for this family for a year and what happened next? 13:20 Mina Hacker So while I was working and then I heard my dad was sick. 13:29 Mina Hacker And I don't know, there were a lot of things happened and my memory is not that clear, some of the things, but the only thing, the few things I remember was 13:40 Mina Hacker that one point I went back to home with my, I mean, vacation, I took vacation from my work because I heard my father was sick and there were no one there to take care of him. 14:03 Mina Hacker because my oldest brother was really severely sick. 14:10 Mina Hacker And he was in the hospital. 14:13 Mina Hacker My mom was there taking care of him. 14:18 Mina Hacker And just nobody was there except my two younger sisters were there. 14:27 Mina Hacker So I been called back home to take care of my dad. 14:33 Mina Hacker So I went there and I tried taking care of my dad one morning. 14:41 Mina Hacker I was, I got up a little late because I was tired. 14:46 Mina Hacker Then my dad got really mad and he was going to hit me with a big stick. 14:55 Mina Hacker And then I know if 14:58 Mina Hacker I get hit and I'll be either crippled or gonna be injured really bad. 15:05 Mina Hacker So I ran away from him and I don't know what happened. 15:13 Mina Hacker So I decided to talk to him. 15:18 Mina Hacker The first time I talked to him in this way, I say to him, you know, I came here to take care of you. 15:26 Mina Hacker Look at what happened. 15:28 Mina Hacker Everybody left you and then there's no one to taking care of you. 15:32 Mina Hacker I'm here to taking care of you. 15:34 Mina Hacker Now you treat me this way. 15:37 Mina Hacker And I think you're trying to turn into dictatorship, like, you know, communism. 15:44 Mina Hacker And somehow you have to change your attitude. 15:48 Mina Hacker And then I just ran. 15:50 Mina Hacker I mean, after I said that and I just ran away. 15:55 Mina Hacker Then. 15:55 Mina Hacker So where did you run to? 15:58 Mina Hacker I ran to next to neighbor. 16:00 Mina Hacker Then I went back to where I was working in that family, rich family. 16:09 Mina Hacker Then shortly after that, I met my, oh, then I had a plan. 16:17 Mina Hacker I just didn't want to live that way. 16:20 Mina Hacker I got to do something for my life. 16:23 Mina Hacker I don't want my future to be just end that way. 16:27 Mina Hacker I mean, at that age, it's like, my clock is ticking. 16:33 Mina Hacker I can't just stay this way. 16:35 Mina Hacker I got to do something. 16:37 Mina Hacker So I planned I was going to run away from there. 16:41 Mina Hacker I mean, not run away. 16:44 Mina Hacker I was going to let them know I want to look for another job. 16:50 Mina Hacker So I had them to hire somebody else and then I trained them. 16:56 Mina Hacker And then I decided to go to Seoul. 16:59 Mina Hacker I said about spending money they've been giving to me. 17:04 Mina Hacker And so I bought train ticket and I decided to go to Seoul and see there's something I can do. 17:15 Mina Hacker So on my way to train station, I met 17:20 Mina Hacker my cousin, and he was on his way to looking for me because my father was about ready to die. 17:31 Mina Hacker And then I didn't believe him. 17:35 Mina Hacker I didn't believe him. 17:36 Mina Hacker I thought maybe he was trying to manipulate to get back home so I can take care of him, which he often does that. 17:49 Mina Hacker So 17:51 Mina Hacker So I didn't go. 17:53 Mina Hacker And make a long story short, after I left, I went to Seoul and time passed and then I, about a month later or two months later, I heard he died, and I had really suffered greatly for, guilt over that. 18:20 Mina Hacker for quite a while. 18:23 Mina Hacker I become a, after I become a Christian, I got healed at too. 18:29 Mina Hacker Yeah. 18:30 Sean Finnegan So when you went to Seoul, what happened? 18:33 Sean Finnegan Did you have a full plan and a place to stay and a job or? 18:40 Mina Hacker No, I just. 18:41 Sean Finnegan What was the plan, I guess? 18:42 Mina Hacker It's got to be better than what I was, I thought. 18:48 Mina Hacker So 18:49 Mina Hacker Those days, train goes such a long time. 18:53 Mina Hacker today, Seoul to where I used to be, it takes like 45 minutes, maybe. 19:04 Mina Hacker no, maybe not. 19:07 Mina Hacker Maybe, 3 hours. 19:09 Mina Hacker Yeah, 3 hours here to New York City, Albany to New York City type of distance. 19:15 Mina Hacker But it took all night. 19:18 Mina Hacker So I got there, I left there late at night, and by the time I arrived at the train station in Seoul, it was early in the morning. 19:32 Mina Hacker And so, but I didn't sleep much, so I just sat on the bench and I dozed off. 19:43 Mina Hacker And I'm trying to figure out what am I going to do. 19:47 Mina Hacker Then I woke up and I was so thirsty. 19:51 Mina Hacker So I decided to go out. 19:53 Mina Hacker there were some people out there outside the train station, sell some drinks and stuff. 20:00 Mina Hacker So I went outside, bought a drink and I drank and wanted to pay and all my money was gone. 20:12 Sean Finnegan What? 20:14 Mina Hacker Yeah. 20:14 Sean Finnegan What happened to your money? 20:16 Mina Hacker Some, what do you call that, the, what is that person who steal your pickpocket? 20:25 Mina Hacker Pickpocket. 20:26 Sean Finnegan Oh my goodness. 20:29 Mina Hacker And I slid my handbag and then took the wallet out and was gone. 20:35 Sean Finnegan So as soon as you got there, first thing, you lose all your money. 20:41 Sean Finnegan Now what happens? 20:42 Mina Hacker So 20:45 Mina Hacker And I just sit down, cry. 20:46 Mina Hacker And then the lady says, I mean, I couldn't pay her. 20:51 Mina Hacker And she says, don't worry about it. 20:54 Mina Hacker She knows what's going on, So I didn't pay, I didn't have to pay there, but I didn't know what the heck I'm going to do, from there on. 21:05 Mina Hacker So I just walked back and forth, near there. 21:08 Mina Hacker I just make sure I don't want to lose my transition, find the transition way. 21:14 Mina Hacker so I walking and walking and then the days go by, they go by and it started getting dark. 21:21 Mina Hacker And so I got to do something. 21:26 Mina Hacker I can't really sleep on the street. 21:28 Mina Hacker So I looked one coffee shop nearby there. 21:33 Mina Hacker So I walked in and then I asked for a job. 21:38 Mina Hacker So, and then I think he knew 21:42 Mina Hacker many of the girls those days, I think they, because of a lot of hardship and girls run away like me, and they take advantage of those girls. 21:55 Mina Hacker So anyway, he hired me and thinking, I thought maybe, I mean, at that time, I didn't care he pay me or not if he can feed me and I can stay, sleep there. 22:10 Mina Hacker So anyway, that wasn't really 22:14 Mina Hacker I mean, we have to put chairs together, sleep on a chair, things like that. 22:20 Mina Hacker And I had to get up 4 o'clock in the morning to, serve the people, things like that. 22:28 Mina Hacker But it was really, really a hard place to work. 22:32 Mina Hacker It was really harder than even the other place I was slaving. 22:37 Sean Finnegan The place you were escaping from. 22:41 Mina Hacker I know. 22:42 Mina Hacker So then I made a friend there. 22:44 Mina Hacker Her name was Aja. 22:47 Mina Hacker If she's still around here, I mean, she knows who I am. 22:54 Mina Hacker But anyway, I made a friend and her and I decided to run away from there. 23:03 Mina Hacker So we looked at the newspaper one point and article says, 23:11 Mina Hacker they're going to hire somebody and good pain rate rate, the good pain and rage. 23:20 Mina Hacker And that's all we have to do is just serve the drink, in a club. 23:29 Mina Hacker So we decided this, we decided this is not bad. 23:32 Mina Hacker So we went, we went there, we ran away from coffee house, we ran to there 23:41 Mina Hacker they want us to come. 23:44 Mina Hacker So when we got there, it was like a huge bus were there and they were like a bus load of girls like us, young girls. 23:57 Mina Hacker Then by the time we got in the bus and they were heading to a place where we were supposed to go, 24:07 Mina Hacker And then when we arrived there, we realized there was sex trafficking. 24:13 Sean Finnegan Oh my goodness. 24:14 Sean Finnegan So you got on this bus thinking it was a job. 24:18 Mina Hacker Yeah. 24:19 Sean Finnegan Like at a restaurant or something or a club. 24:21 Mina Hacker Yeah, club, yeah. 24:23 Sean Finnegan But in reality, it was forced prostitution. 24:28 Mina Hacker Yeah. 24:29 Sean Finnegan Sex trafficking. 24:30 Mina Hacker Yeah. 24:33 Sean Finnegan Did you try to get away? 24:35 Mina Hacker Well. 24:38 Mina Hacker We didn't know until we got there, then, I got raped. 24:46 Mina Hacker I'm sure other girls got raped. 24:50 Mina Hacker Once, I don't know, once you got, you get raped, then you give up, you know, in young age, you know, we just, I just give up. 25:02 Mina Hacker I was just too tired, you know, too tired to fight. 25:07 Mina Hacker And so, we become a prostitute. 25:10 Sean Finnegan And how long did that go on for? 25:14 Mina Hacker I don't know. 25:15 Mina Hacker It seems like a trillion years went by. 25:19 Mina Hacker and at the time, it was like, probably not even, probably a year, maybe, the most. 25:33 Mina Hacker But it seemed like a trillion years went by. 25:37 Mina Hacker And at that point, it's like, I don't care. 25:41 Mina Hacker I just give up. 25:44 Mina Hacker it's like I no longer now be able to function as a normal people in a society. 25:53 Mina Hacker I know I can never, in my, in that time, the South Korea, the culture was, 26:03 Mina Hacker Even, you're not prostitute, if you lose your virginity, you really can't go to, can't marry to this man, either, secondary man or, second wife or, something like that. 26:24 Mina Hacker you really can live a dignifying life once you lose virginity. 26:32 Mina Hacker But, for what happened to us, it was like, what happened to me was like, life was over. 26:43 Sean Finnegan So that's what you thought you were saying to yourself, like, my life's over. 26:48 Sean Finnegan You were feeling like, what's the point? 26:53 Mina Hacker Yeah, so I, yeah. 26:55 Mina Hacker So then, those days, probably, that's where a month later I heard 27:02 Mina Hacker my dad passed away. 27:04 Mina Hacker I heard some news came to me. 27:08 Mina Hacker And so I decided to, then when I went visit my home, everybody was just such in bad shape. 27:18 Mina Hacker at that point, never mind my dad saw slavery for what his need. 27:27 Mina Hacker Everybody, all my younger sisters had to go 27:31 Mina Hacker to serve other people in order to survive, And, my mom, everybody was just doing everything they can to just survive. 27:45 Mina Hacker So back then I realized, my life is over. 27:52 Mina Hacker I just going to stay on. 27:54 Mina Hacker Maybe, I can help them financially, 27:59 Mina Hacker But they still, they didn't really work too well. 28:04 Mina Hacker I trying to help out my younger sister and send her, the terror score and what she ended up become the professional fashion designer. 28:23 Mina Hacker So she was really unsuccessful. 28:26 Mina Hacker But anyway, I did that for a while, then I decided, I just, I was kind of like down and out. 28:36 Mina Hacker I was not in thinking properly at that time. 28:41 Mina Hacker So I left it there. 28:44 Mina Hacker I left my sister in where my area, she's working in terror shop there. 28:50 Mina Hacker And I came to solve. 28:54 Mina Hacker And then 28:56 Mina Hacker then I started working, I started going to club and then that's where I met my husband, Lou. 29:04 Sean Finnegan All right, let me back up a little bit. 29:06 Sean Finnegan So you were in some sort of sex trafficking situation. 29:11 Sean Finnegan Were you forced to stay there or you could leave when you wanted? 29:18 Mina Hacker Well, 29:20 Mina Hacker I was forced to stay there because as soon as we got there, they give me room and board and bed, all this, at that time, there's a lot of fancy decorations in the room, things like that. 29:40 Mina Hacker They all calculated how much it cost at that, 29:48 Mina Hacker they furnish all this for me. 29:50 Mina Hacker So I can't move out of there right away until I pay that off. 29:56 Speaker 3 Oh, okay. 29:57 Sean Finnegan So you had to work to make money to buy your freedom. 30:03 Mina Hacker Right. 30:04 Sean Finnegan And then when you did, you went to stay with your sister. 30:07 Mina Hacker No, then I will stay by myself. 30:11 Mina Hacker at that time, then I helped out my sister, I decided to, I'm gonna just take off that area. 30:20 Mina Hacker Quite honestly, I don't even remember that town name. 30:25 Mina Hacker I just don't, because I just pushed out of my head. 30:32 Speaker 3 Yeah. 30:33 Sean Finnegan So after you were able to get free, you met the man who would become your husband 30:41 Sean Finnegan In a club. 30:42 Mina Hacker Yeah. 30:43 Sean Finnegan Okay. 30:43 Sean Finnegan Tell us about that. 30:44 Sean Finnegan How did you meet him? 30:47 Sean Finnegan Because he's American too. 30:48 Sean Finnegan He's not a Korean. 30:49 Mina Hacker He's American. 30:51 Mina Hacker I went to club. 30:52 Mina Hacker I got a job and I went to club and, you know, I was just anybody who wanted to support me and I went back with them, 31:09 Mina Hacker That's all I, that's all I had at the time. 31:12 Mina Hacker I just, yeah. 31:16 Mina Hacker And during that time I met my husband. 31:19 Mina Hacker So anyway, that's what happened. 31:22 Sean Finnegan So how did this turn into a relationship? 31:27 Mina Hacker Well, he wanted to, he wanted to continuously date with me and he doesn't want me to see any other man. 31:35 Sean Finnegan Right. 31:37 Mina Hacker That's. 31:38 Mina Hacker That's how we start. 31:40 Mina Hacker And yeah. 31:42 Sean Finnegan Okay, so then what happened next? 31:45 Mina Hacker Then he promised me that he wanted to marry me. 31:50 Mina Hacker And I say, why don't you go home, think about it. 31:59 Sean Finnegan Go home to the United States and think about it? 32:02 Sean Finnegan Is that what you meant? 32:07 Mina Hacker I was not confident that, I could marry to somebody. 32:18 Mina Hacker And I wanted to make sure also that he's making right decision. 32:27 Sean Finnegan So what did he say? 32:30 Mina Hacker He says, he says, okay, I will do that. 32:33 Mina Hacker And he went, he came home and a month later, I got all the papers. 32:40 Mina Hacker He filed fiance visa and all the spending money, so what I need to file all this thing. 32:49 Mina Hacker And so, you know, and all my friends advised, this is your chance to redeem your life. 33:00 Mina Hacker and then just go, so anyway, so I decided to escape country, escape all this thing. 33:10 Mina Hacker So I did. 33:13 Sean Finnegan And I have a picture here of you and Lou. 33:18 Mina Hacker Yeah. 33:20 Sean Finnegan There we go. 33:22 Mina Hacker There we go. 33:22 Mina Hacker That was when he, oh, okay, that time he didn't want me to see any other man. 33:30 Mina Hacker So he rent this place and at the time there's keep money, which is you give this apartment owner chunk of money and then you don't have to pay the rent. 33:48 Mina Hacker But when you leave, when you decide to leave, they give you that money back. 33:55 Mina Hacker That's called kid money. 33:57 Mina Hacker So he did that and we took a picture there. 34:02 Mina Hacker That's what it was. 34:03 Speaker 3 That's pretty cool. 34:06 Sean Finnegan So you left the country. 34:12 Sean Finnegan So you left the country? 34:15 Mina Hacker Yeah. 34:16 Sean Finnegan And let me just bring myself back. 34:18 Sean Finnegan Here I am. 34:19 Sean Finnegan You left the country, you came to the United States. 34:21 Sean Finnegan And did you move to New York State or was it another state? 34:27 Mina Hacker New York State, I mean, at the Rubina, New York. 34:32 Mina Hacker That's where I came to. 34:34 Mina Hacker Yeah. 34:37 Sean Finnegan And you married Lou? 34:41 Mina Hacker Yeah, I came here with a fiance visa, which I had three months to marry. 34:48 Mina Hacker If I don't marry within three months, I, you know, will go back. 34:56 Sean Finnegan What happened next? 34:57 Sean Finnegan What was married life like for you? 34:59 Mina Hacker Was it different? 35:04 Mina Hacker Yes. 35:05 Mina Hacker No. 35:06 Mina Hacker So we got married and we got married in 1972, March 26th. 35:16 Mina Hacker And we were living with his brother's house. 35:21 Mina Hacker And he had all 35:24 Mina Hacker our farmhouse, and my husband was handy. 35:27 Mina Hacker He fixed it up, extra room there, so we shared kitchen together. 35:32 Mina Hacker We living in over there. 35:34 Mina Hacker Then those days, since 1970s, it was like all the young people, they were like, hippies, a lot of hippies. 35:46 Mina Hacker There was a potty everywhere, marijuana and drinking. 35:53 Mina Hacker And since those days, you don't have to work. 35:57 Mina Hacker As long as you go, they join the party and they feed you and they give you a joint, they give you a drink, things like that. 36:06 Mina Hacker So anyway, and I, that his brother's house was in Rubina, is way out of city. 36:18 Mina Hacker And at the time, I didn't know how to drive. 36:21 Mina Hacker I couldn't speak English enough to get a job. 36:25 Mina Hacker So I stayed there and I'm helping out my sister-in-law, my brother-in-law 's wife. 36:32 Mina Hacker And we become really good friends, but she's a gardener and I was helping her. 36:40 Mina Hacker But every weekend, their whole motivation of working 36:46 Mina Hacker and doing things is for party on the weekend, drinking marijuana, cocaine, whatever you name it, was there every weekend. 37:00 Mina Hacker And my husband was not in cocaine, but he was trying to work hard, but he wasn't an alcoholic, which I didn't know. 37:12 Mina Hacker I didn't know what was alcoholic like. 37:15 Mina Hacker I thought everybody drinks and there's nothing wrong with the drinking. 37:20 Mina Hacker But my husband, I realized he was alcoholic and whenever he go to work, he doesn't come home. 37:33 Mina Hacker After work, he stop at bar and until bar close. 37:39 Mina Hacker those days by close like 4:00 in the morning. 37:43 Mina Hacker Wow. 37:44 Sean Finnegan Yeah, that's a late night. 37:47 Mina Hacker Yeah. 37:48 Mina Hacker So every night I'm waiting for my husband to come. 37:52 Mina Hacker You know, never come until, you know, he's really drunk and sometimes he wrecked a car, you know, things like that. 38:01 Mina Hacker So that's kind of life I was in. 38:05 Mina Hacker And then 38:06 Mina Hacker And then I realized, I think it continued like that for a year. 38:13 Mina Hacker And during that time, I realized I was on dead end St. 38:20 Mina Hacker There's no, I just, I don't, I can't go back. 38:27 Mina Hacker there's nothing to go back in my home for, home country. 38:31 Speaker 3 Right. 38:32 Mina Hacker And 38:34 Mina Hacker I couldn't drive, so I can't, I don't have a freedom to go wherever I want. 38:40 Mina Hacker And I couldn't speak English well enough to, get some decent job. 38:50 Mina Hacker So one day I just, I mean, those days I had a hard time sleeping. 38:56 Mina Hacker And my husband was, his job was pharmaceutical 39:01 Mina Hacker distributor, his, those days, you sell drugs, medicines, each drug stores, or not drug stores, doctors, distribute this, whatever doctor needs in the local doctor's offices. 39:19 Mina Hacker That's the job what he had. 39:23 Mina Hacker But when I had a hard time sleeping, 39:27 Mina Hacker And he gave me a sleeping pill. 39:32 Mina Hacker So I started taking that and I got addicted to that sleeping pill. 39:42 Mina Hacker And also I was drinking at the time too, trying to numb it up, whole situation was going on. 39:49 Mina Hacker And so anyway, 39:54 Mina Hacker One night, I decided to, this is it. 39:57 Mina Hacker Best thing to do is just in my life and it'll be over. 40:03 Mina Hacker So. 40:03 Speaker 3 Okay. 40:04 Sean Finnegan So what happened? 40:06 Mina Hacker I took the whole bunch of sleeping pill and I woke up three days later. 40:16 Mina Hacker I didn't die. 40:17 Mina Hacker I didn't die. 40:20 Mina Hacker Yeah. 40:21 Sean Finnegan Where did you wake up? 40:24 Mina Hacker I was in my husband's arm when I woke up. 40:29 Mina Hacker He was holding on to me. 40:31 Speaker 3 Okay. 40:34 Sean Finnegan Do you know what was he thinking when he came home and he saw you sleeping and then you were still sleeping again? 40:41 Sean Finnegan Or did he understand what was happening? 40:45 Mina Hacker Probably he knew what was going on. 40:49 Mina Hacker But I don't think they 40:53 Mina Hacker I think they were afraid to, just hoping that I will wake up. 40:57 Mina Hacker They were afraid to take me to hospital because they were doing all kinds of illegal thing. 41:06 Speaker 3 Wow. 41:08 Mina Hacker I see. 41:08 Mina Hacker Yeah. 41:10 Mina Hacker Wanna put everybody in trouble. 41:12 Mina Hacker I mean, this is some, I'm guessing, you know, why? 41:16 Mina Hacker Three day, you know, I slept for three days with a, you know, surgeon pill probably, 41:23 Mina Hacker all over the floor, probably, whatever. 41:27 Mina Hacker And why didn't he take me to hospital? 41:30 Sean Finnegan Do you know how old you were when this happened? 41:33 Mina Hacker I have to say about 22. 41:36 Mina Hacker Yeah, around that time. 41:38 Sean Finnegan It's just an incredible amount of suffering for any one person to go through from childhood slavery to prostitution to just being so miserable and 41:51 Sean Finnegan life in a new country that you decide to end it all, by the age of 22. 41:58 Sean Finnegan Just an incredible amount of hardship that you faced. 42:04 Sean Finnegan Well, you're still here now. 42:07 Sean Finnegan So you made it through, you woke up. 42:12 Sean Finnegan What happened next? 42:17 Mina Hacker That was the most difficult thing I ever done, trying to kill myself. 42:24 Mina Hacker So since I didn't die and I started thinking about what I just explained, why didn't they take me to hospital? 42:34 Mina Hacker And if I die, I know I may be so insignificant, but nobody would know how I die. 42:46 Mina Hacker And so I decided with that kind of courage, it takes a lot of courage to end your life. 42:59 Mina Hacker So I decided I'm going to do everything I can do to live, see what happened. 43:09 Mina Hacker So I was mad at my husband, mad at everybody there. 43:16 Mina Hacker angry at them and way the things go. 43:22 Mina Hacker So I left my husband and I went to stay with my friend. 43:30 Mina Hacker Then she had a bunch of ladies who going to work in factory, some factory in Kukasaki. 43:42 Mina Hacker So 43:43 Mina Hacker I was with a bunch of ladies and ride together and work in the factory. 43:52 Mina Hacker That's what I did for almost a year. 43:57 Mina Hacker And during that time, my husband just keep visiting me every day, almost every day and saying, come back. 44:11 Speaker 3 Wow. 44:12 Sean Finnegan So you lived apart for a year, but you saw each other over and over again. 44:19 Mina Hacker Yeah. 44:20 Sean Finnegan Why didn't you want to come back? 44:21 Sean Finnegan Why did he want to come back? 44:26 Sean Finnegan Why did you want to stay away? 44:30 Mina Hacker Because I want to stay away from that toxic life. 44:35 Sean Finnegan Just the party lifestyle. 44:37 Mina Hacker Party lifestyle. 44:40 Mina Hacker I don't think I, mean, physically, I was ill. 44:44 Mina Hacker Mentally, physically, I was not in good shape during that time. 44:50 Mina Hacker I got to do something to live life, So if I'm going to live, I got to stay away from it. 44:58 Mina Hacker And so that's what I did. 45:01 Mina Hacker And then my husband kept coming, visited me, kept asking me to come back. 45:09 Mina Hacker And I gave them more to Madam. 45:11 Mina Hacker I said, look, I can't live my life that way. 45:16 Mina Hacker I came here to a better life. 45:19 Mina Hacker Instead, I think I'm getting worse. 45:24 Mina Hacker So, unless you have you move out of that house and then get a different place for ourselves, I can't go back to you. 45:39 Mina Hacker And so he did just that. 45:41 Mina Hacker He had an apartment in heritage apartment. 45:46 Mina Hacker And so that's when I decided to move back with him. 45:52 Mina Hacker Then I got a job in a Japanese restaurant in downtown Albany during that time. 46:00 Mina Hacker And I was working there for a while. 46:04 Mina Hacker But my husband's drinking habit didn't change. 46:09 Mina Hacker he's got to be drag me back and forth. 46:12 Mina Hacker But when he come to pick me up, he sat on a bar drinking more than I could make a tip. 46:20 Sean Finnegan So he's spending the money as fast as you can earn it. 46:27 Speaker 3 Oh, man. 46:29 Mina Hacker Yeah, but he's a really nice man. 46:32 Mina Hacker He turned out to be a really nice man. 46:34 Mina Hacker He is a nice man. 46:36 Mina Hacker He was a nice man, but it was addiction. 46:40 Speaker 3 Yeah. 46:41 Mina Hacker That's what. 46:42 Sean Finnegan And he probably had his own reasons and his own difficulties in the past that he was trying to numb by medicating through alcohol. 46:53 Sean Finnegan But you were trying to get out of that 46:57 Sean Finnegan You have been around that your whole life. 46:59 Sean Finnegan Right from the time that you were a little girl sleeping, in the house and your dad is drinking and, up through the years in Seoul, you're around it and you're just trying to escape. 47:13 Mina Hacker I did. 47:14 Mina Hacker I did. 47:15 Mina Hacker Yeah. 47:15 Sean Finnegan So what happened next? 47:19 Mina Hacker So anyway, 47:23 Mina Hacker Then we, but still it was livable. 47:25 Mina Hacker Now we, are ourselves by ourselves now in... 47:30 Sean Finnegan Not no longer with his brother. 47:33 Mina Hacker Yeah, I'm still working and I keep studying English. 47:37 Mina Hacker Back then, there were like federal government support. 47:41 Mina Hacker There were free program for foreigners to how to learn English. 47:48 Mina Hacker So, I got into that, which my husband 47:53 Mina Hacker figure these things out and then introduced me. 47:55 Mina Hacker So he probably thought I need to learn English. 48:00 Mina Hacker So I started learning English and then studied English and got my driver license. 48:11 Mina Hacker And then I 48:18 Mina Hacker after a while, I thought, now I come this far, maybe I should have a kid. 48:24 Mina Hacker it was like five years ago and by now. 48:30 Mina Hacker So I was on a birth control pill, but I stopped and my husband didn't know. 48:42 Mina Hacker So 48:43 Mina Hacker Anyway, I stopped birth control and I got pregnant. 48:47 Mina Hacker And that's Tasha. 48:49 Mina Hacker Yeah. 48:51 Mina Hacker Got a nice picture of her. 48:52 Mina Hacker Oh, before that, I go back to my, those, we were living in my, his brother, my brother-in-law 's house. 49:04 Mina Hacker When I first got here, right away I was pregnant. 49:10 Mina Hacker And 49:12 Mina Hacker And everybody was saying, no, you can't have a baby right now. 49:18 Mina Hacker Which I should have let my in-laws, if they knew it, probably would never allow that to happen. 49:26 Mina Hacker So anyway, I had abortion on that baby. 49:31 Mina Hacker Yeah, that was heartbreaking. 49:34 Sean Finnegan So that was before. 49:35 Sean Finnegan And then after that, you had Tasha. 49:38 Sean Finnegan And that was the picture we just saw of you and her. 49:42 Sean Finnegan So now that you are a mother and you have this baby, how did that change things for you? 49:48 Mina Hacker Well, it's like when I held that baby, it was my happiest moment in my life. 50:01 Mina Hacker I love her so much. 50:03 Mina Hacker But anyway, 50:11 Mina Hacker So life will continue on and my husband was still drinking and when I was just, we were constantly fighting, arguing and trying to stop him to drinking and it just didn't happen. 50:32 Mina Hacker And I was, every time we got in a fight and I just feel my whole energy just 50:38 Mina Hacker wasted, just not. 50:42 Mina Hacker So one day I looked at the baby and I thought to myself, instead of wasting my energy with my fighting with him, why don't I just, collect those energy and then do everything I can to, provided her. 51:05 Mina Hacker And so I decided to get two jobs. 51:09 Mina Hacker So during the day I working in a factory nearby and I had a driver license now. 51:18 Mina Hacker I had a car. 51:18 Mina Hacker It's all car, but it takes me somewhere. 51:22 Mina Hacker So I and at night I got a job in Hero in which is in Schenectady. 51:32 Mina Hacker So 51:33 Mina Hacker I did that for about a year. 51:36 Mina Hacker And during that time, my husband quit drinking. 51:43 Mina Hacker So. 51:44 Sean Finnegan That must have been huge. 51:46 Mina Hacker Yeah. 51:47 Mina Hacker Yeah. 51:48 Mina Hacker And when he stopped drinking, it was like, it's just everything changed, when he stopped drinking. 51:59 Mina Hacker And so during that time, and I didn't have time to spend money, so, I spent, I keep saving, so I had enough money saved. 52:11 Mina Hacker So I decided to, I want to, now seven years passed by, 52:16 Mina Hacker since I came here, I came in United States. 52:20 Mina Hacker So I decided to go visit my family in South Korea, but I didn't explain what condition that was during that whole seven years here. 52:38 Mina Hacker The communication I had with my family 52:43 Mina Hacker was the only communication we had was letter. 52:49 Mina Hacker They had no telephone. 52:51 Mina Hacker Only markets and, some maybe town hall, if you're going to call somebody, whatever, it's like emergency, things like that. 53:06 Mina Hacker But there's no place to call whenever you need. 53:10 Mina Hacker It's not like today, 53:13 Mina Hacker So when you send a letter, it takes a month to get there. 53:19 Mina Hacker That's kind of communication we had. 53:21 Mina Hacker So anyway, I just want to know how they're doing, So I decided to, and also I was kind of like, even though my husband stopped drinking, I was kind of tired of, the living hardship, living in 53:43 Mina Hacker this country, maybe Korea got better. 53:48 Mina Hacker Maybe I have a better place to live over there, better way to live life there. 53:53 Mina Hacker So I took my, I took my daughter Tasha and I went visit over there. 54:03 Sean Finnegan And how old was Tasha at that time? 54:05 Mina Hacker She was about two years, 2 1/2 years. 54:09 Mina Hacker Okay. 54:10 Mina Hacker Yeah. 54:12 Mina Hacker So I got there. 54:17 Mina Hacker It was like, if I sum it up, I didn't have a chance to tell them about my hardship in America because they start telling me hardship, what they had. 54:34 Mina Hacker I had to just cover my mouth. 54:38 Mina Hacker I couldn't say anything because 54:41 Mina Hacker they were a lot worse off than I ever did here. 54:48 Mina Hacker And so that's when I decided to, I wanted to help them, but there's no way, there's too many of them and there's no way I could do it. 55:01 Mina Hacker I mean, even I'm struggling here. 55:05 Mina Hacker So that's when I decided to 55:09 Mina Hacker I call on God. 55:10 Mina Hacker if there's any God, there's any higher power, then who can help this, my family, I want to know about it. 55:22 Mina Hacker And that's when I got invited to, my friend's mother was visiting Seoul, Korea at the same time. 55:29 Mina Hacker She had cancer and the doctor said she only had five years to live. 55:39 Mina Hacker But one of her daughter was minister's wife and it was like True Baptist Church or something like that in Seoul Korea. 55:51 Mina Hacker And she was visiting her and she called me to visit her church. 55:57 Mina Hacker And so I got there. 56:04 Mina Hacker The funny thing is I really want to hear about this the first time I'm going to church. 56:11 Mina Hacker I want to hear, I really want to know about what they have to say. 56:16 Mina Hacker So I went in that church and minister preached and I didn't understand or think what he said that morning. 56:28 Mina Hacker I didn't. 56:29 Mina Hacker I just. 56:32 Sean Finnegan So you had just no background in Christianity, no experience? 56:35 Mina Hacker No background in Christianity, nothing. 56:38 Sean Finnegan You were curious. 56:40 Mina Hacker I was curious. 56:41 Mina Hacker I want to hear about it, but I couldn't understand a thing. 56:45 Mina Hacker But oddly enough, this minister after a sermon, he says, if anyone didn't understand what he preached this morning, please raise hand. 56:58 Mina Hacker And I was I raised hand because I was really mad at him. 57:04 Mina Hacker why can't he speak the language or what common people can understand, And I thought that's what he was doing is not speaking common language. 57:19 Mina Hacker So I raised hand. 57:20 Mina Hacker I was going to just, 57:22 Mina Hacker question him and tell him about that. 57:24 Mina Hacker I really wanted to know him. 57:26 Mina Hacker Why didn't you speak the language? 57:28 Mina Hacker What I, you know, the regular people can understand. 57:33 Mina Hacker And so turned out to be his wife got me there. 57:38 Mina Hacker And I ended up, instead of a question, I ended up, as soon as I faced her, I just breaking into tears. 57:46 Mina Hacker I just break down and cry. 57:51 Mina Hacker I believe that was the Spirit of God working during that time. 57:56 Mina Hacker I look back, I'm sure that's what it was. 57:59 Mina Hacker And then she talked about Jesus and how he helped her mother and her life and things like that. 58:09 Mina Hacker So I did accept Jesus there. 58:17 Mina Hacker Then I came home. 58:21 Mina Hacker I came back home. 58:22 Sean Finnegan So when you left, you were thinking, maybe I will stay in Korea. 58:27 Sean Finnegan But when you got there, you were like, oh man, this place is way worse. 58:31 Mina Hacker There's no place for me to be in there even then. 58:36 Mina Hacker It was really, really bad during that time. 58:40 Mina Hacker That was 1979. 58:42 Sean Finnegan All right. 58:43 Mina Hacker Yeah. 58:44 Sean Finnegan That's a good year. 58:45 Sean Finnegan That's one of my favorite years, 79, because that's when I was born. 58:52 Sean Finnegan So you came back to America and your husband was no longer drinking? 58:58 Mina Hacker No longer drinking. 59:00 Mina Hacker We don't fight anymore. 59:03 Mina Hacker But it was like, you know, well, I'm thinking, well, you know, I got to go to church, but I don't want to go to church without knowing anything about Bible. 59:15 Mina Hacker You know, so I figured, well, I better buy Bible. 59:19 Mina Hacker And then I'm going to start read about it. 59:22 Mina Hacker And then I'm going to go to church. 59:27 Mina Hacker But this is afterwards, after we become a Christian, my husband and I shared together. 59:34 Mina Hacker And he said, he was, during that time, he was thinking the same thing. 59:38 Mina Hacker He wanted to go to church because of Tasha's future, but 59:47 Mina Hacker He did not want to go there until he buys Bible and read about it. 59:55 Mina Hacker So he doesn't act stupid or something. 1:00:01 Mina Hacker So we both thinking the same thing. 1:00:04 Mina Hacker During that time, one of his drinking body quit drinking and got into Bible study group called The Way. 1:00:16 Mina Hacker and having a tweak fellowship. 1:00:19 Mina Hacker You heard about that, right? 1:00:20 Sean Finnegan Sure. 1:00:23 Mina Hacker Anyway, then invited us for Bible fellowship. 1:00:30 Mina Hacker So we started going there first time. 1:00:32 Sean Finnegan And when you went, what was it like? 1:00:34 Sean Finnegan Did it? 1:00:35 Mina Hacker Was like, the teacher was that night was Chip Asty. 1:00:41 Mina Hacker If Chip Asty hear this, 1:00:43 Mina Hacker He really changed my life for that night teaching. 1:00:47 Mina Hacker He taught gospel, what Jesus was doing, all this miracle thing. 1:00:56 Mina Hacker And it was like, I mean, I don't know what happened because I didn't really understood English that well at that time. 1:01:09 Mina Hacker But it was like he was reading this gospel 1:01:13 Mina Hacker It was like I was watching movie, or play, And I was just astonished because I didn't know all of those things is in the Bible. 1:01:32 Mina Hacker And I want to know about it. 1:01:35 Mina Hacker And so we kept going that fellowship and then they keep introducing 1:01:43 Mina Hacker Bible study class called Powerful Abundant Living Class. 1:01:52 Mina Hacker But I'm still thinking, oh, I'm going to study more on my Bible, my own, then take the class because I don't feel like I want to be, you know, the dummy in a class or whatever. 1:02:07 Mina Hacker You know, those days, it's just the kernel man mentality. 1:02:13 Mina Hacker that I had a pride. 1:02:16 Mina Hacker My husband decided he wanted to take that class. 1:02:22 Mina Hacker So anyway, most of the time, almost all the time, when he wanted to do something, he usually dragged me into it. 1:02:33 Mina Hacker But this time, he didn't really ask me whether 1:02:36 Mina Hacker I want to take it or not. 1:02:38 Mina Hacker He just, he signed up for himself without even asking or without even asking you want to do or anything. 1:02:47 Mina Hacker And I thought, this is really interesting. 1:02:49 Mina Hacker And I thought, well, you know, he's taking the class. 1:02:52 Mina Hacker I don't want to be left out. 1:02:55 Speaker 3 Yeah. 1:02:55 Mina Hacker So, you know, so we both signed up and we took powerful vendor living class. 1:03:02 Mina Hacker And so 1:03:06 Mina Hacker I think it was in session 7 and I got born again. 1:03:14 Mina Hacker Yeah, I accept Jesus as my Lord and I believe that God raised him from the dead. 1:03:23 Mina Hacker And I wanted to, and the scripture that time I was reading 1:03:30 Mina Hacker And after that, I don't know how long after that, I was reading First Corinthians, no, Second Corinthians 5.17. 1:03:42 Mina Hacker It says, all things have passed away. 1:03:47 Mina Hacker This is Ali B translation. 1:03:50 Mina Hacker All, and it's, I'm quoting in the middle of the scriptures, all things have passed away. 1:03:59 Mina Hacker Look, 1:04:00 Mina Hacker no thing have come. 1:04:04 Mina Hacker And when I read that scripture, it was like, okay, I got second chance. 1:04:15 Mina Hacker I can do things right. 1:04:20 Mina Hacker Then much of a study, it kept going on, it kept studying. 1:04:26 Mina Hacker And my favorite scriptures, I just jotted down here, 1:04:30 Mina Hacker And Romans 3.10, it says, no one righteous, not even one. 1:04:37 Mina Hacker Those kind of scripture really come for me because I thought I was the only scum of the earth. 1:04:46 Mina Hacker And even though everything seemed okay on the surface, but I was, it was eating me up. 1:04:59 Mina Hacker inside of me that so much shame. 1:05:04 Speaker 3 Yeah. 1:05:04 Sean Finnegan So this, explain to me a little bit more about this verse. 1:05:10 Sean Finnegan You said, there is no one righteous, not even one. 1:05:14 Sean Finnegan That's what it says in Romans 3.10. 1:05:19 Sean Finnegan Did this verse feel insulting to you or you liked it or explain? 1:05:24 Mina Hacker No, it comforted me. 1:05:27 Sean Finnegan Yeah, tell me why it comforted you because that doesn't seem like a comforting verse. 1:05:32 Mina Hacker Because I was the only one is not fitting, you know, it's a scum, not righteous. 1:05:42 Sean Finnegan So hearing a verse that said, there's no one that's righteous. 1:05:46 Sean Finnegan made you feel more like you weren't the only one. 1:05:50 Mina Hacker I'm not the only one. 1:05:52 Sean Finnegan Okay. 1:05:53 Mina Hacker That's why it come for me. 1:05:55 Speaker 3 Okay. 1:05:56 Mina Hacker So it's not God that who, and then goes on like Ephesians 2, 1 to 9. 1:06:05 Mina Hacker It's like we saved by God's grace and his mercy. 1:06:12 Mina Hacker the whole section of 1 to 9 is talking about that. 1:06:17 Mina Hacker And it's not by my own righteousness. 1:06:20 Mina Hacker It's the grace of God, the script of God. 1:06:24 Mina Hacker Those kind of thing just in over time, not just right away, you know, you just keep going with reading Bible. 1:06:35 Mina Hacker And because when even I become a Christian, 1:06:43 Mina Hacker I know here in my head, I know God accept me, I'm safe, but I'm thinking, why? 1:06:55 Mina Hacker I mean, I still feel like, I'm not good enough. 1:07:03 Mina Hacker I'm just, I should have been just, why would God care about me? 1:07:10 Mina Hacker that wonderful, holy, righteous and creator, why would he, why would, I just didn't feel I was qualified. 1:07:26 Mina Hacker I guess that's what shame can do for you. 1:07:34 Mina Hacker Shame, shameful 1:07:37 Mina Hacker this whole, and then later I learned about, the, who controls this world, this whole world is under control over evil one, which is devil. 1:07:50 Speaker 3 And you certainly experienced that. 1:07:52 Mina Hacker Yeah, it makes sense. 1:07:54 Mina Hacker He's the one who creates all that shameful thing to people. 1:08:03 Mina Hacker And so, you know, that shame 1:08:07 Mina Hacker couldn't just encage you in prison. 1:08:12 Mina Hacker So you're not good enough. 1:08:14 Mina Hacker You're not confident in, before holy God. 1:08:21 Mina Hacker even though you learn about Christ on the cross, although you teaching this morning, it was excellent. 1:08:29 Mina Hacker You know, I mean, I mean, every time I hear that, I just cry because 1:08:38 Mina Hacker He did it all. 1:08:41 Sean Finnegan So let me just kind of summarize a little bit and then you can add to that. 1:08:48 Sean Finnegan You're in your mid 20s at this point when you became a Christian. 1:08:57 Mina Hacker Yeah. 1:08:57 Sean Finnegan Is it late 20s or mid 20s? 1:08:59 Sean Finnegan Somewhere in there. 1:09:01 Mina Hacker Late 20s. 1:09:04 Sean Finnegan Okay. 1:09:05 Sean Finnegan By this point in time, you have achieved so much in your life. 1:09:11 Sean Finnegan You have escaped twice from slavery. 1:09:16 Sean Finnegan You have immigrated one of the fairly few percentage of Koreans who moved to the United States in that time, back in the 1970s. 1:09:28 Sean Finnegan maybe there were a lot of people, but still a small percentage overall. 1:09:34 Sean Finnegan So that puts you in an exceptional category. 1:09:38 Sean Finnegan You got married, you had a kid, you learned English, you got a driver's license, you had a job. 1:09:47 Sean Finnegan I mean, you have like just checked off so many things that even today in 2026, 1:09:55 Sean Finnegan There are so many young people that are not yet, maybe they have a job but they don't have a spouse. 1:10:01 Sean Finnegan Or maybe they have a spouse but they don't have a child, they would like to have a child, right? 1:10:05 Sean Finnegan And so like you have arrived in a sense of so many accomplishments by your late 20s, you're now a Christian, and yet you still think in the depths of your soul that you're not worthy and that you're no good and that you feel shame. 1:10:24 Sean Finnegan Is that correct? 1:10:27 Mina Hacker Right now, I don't, if I don't have that kind of shame anymore in CageMe. 1:10:33 Mina Hacker That's why I do. 1:10:34 Sean Finnegan So tell me how the shame dissipated. 1:10:39 Sean Finnegan How did it lift and go away? 1:10:44 Mina Hacker Number one, I just keep reading the Bible because of 1:10:52 Mina Hacker Because of, I couldn't, I mean, I accept God, God wants, God accept me when I confess Jesus as the Lord and believe that God raised him from the dead. 1:11:05 Mina Hacker And because he provided and paid my sin and put new creation, you know, he created new spirit in me. 1:11:16 Mina Hacker And so I can start fresh. 1:11:19 Mina Hacker But that did not become crystallized until I knew that's what God did, but I wasn't sure. 1:11:31 Mina Hacker So what happened is I just keep reading the Bible. 1:11:37 Mina Hacker I just keep reading the Bible, keep reading the Bible, keep hearing teacher decided to 1:11:44 Mina Hacker stick with some good, honest Bible teacher, because then after I become a Christian, there were so many different doctrines in different churches. 1:11:54 Mina Hacker So I didn't know, I just didn't want to stick with so much traditions teaching. 1:12:02 Mina Hacker I want to stick with somebody who really honestly teaching the Bible. 1:12:07 Mina Hacker That was John Shanghai. 1:12:09 Mina Hacker I really 1:12:11 Mina Hacker I really thank God for his life because he walked me through up to this point. 1:12:19 Mina Hacker And so his teaching was so clear and I can begin to really crystallize what's really going on. 1:12:36 Mina Hacker And so I start understanding as I'm reading the Bible, 1:12:40 Mina Hacker And I was reading like the one point I was reading, like I told you before, Second Corinthians and Romans. 1:12:51 Mina Hacker And I mean, I read over and over and over again. 1:12:55 Mina Hacker But my favorite subject is like God in the Bible. 1:13:00 Mina Hacker There was a way God accept people is it's a 1:13:09 Mina Hacker It's just, it's not like what the world except the people. 1:13:14 Mina Hacker Like I read about prostitute Rahab. 1:13:24 Mina Hacker And then I read like Matthew, like genealogy of Jesus Christ. 1:13:34 Mina Hacker There were like 4 1:13:38 Mina Hacker three women's name mentioned and one, Uriah's wife, which is, we know, we all know, that's Batsiba. 1:13:50 Mina Hacker There's no other, I mean, there were many women's who bore Christline, but only those four names were mentioned, four women's are mentioned. 1:14:02 Mina Hacker And one day it was, I know it's God works in 1:14:08 Mina Hacker works in my life with the, because, I want to get delivered. 1:14:14 Mina Hacker I want to know about what, I am really worthy before God. 1:14:20 Mina Hacker And even though I know I'm worthy because Christ did, did he really did for me? 1:14:26 Mina Hacker That's my big question. 1:14:29 Mina Hacker So these kind of people, 1:14:36 Mina Hacker record, the stories I'm reading and how God specialized, not because of the, special, just because of they all trusted him. 1:14:54 Mina Hacker and that's it. 1:14:55 Mina Hacker Trusted him, what he'd done and what he is. 1:15:01 Mina Hacker Like Rahab, 1:15:04 Mina Hacker Why did she hide this spy of Joshua's sin? 1:15:11 Mina Hacker Because she knew about God. 1:15:15 Mina Hacker She knew how powerful God there was, how he takes care of his people. 1:15:26 Mina Hacker She want that God to be her God so her and her family can be saved. 1:15:34 Mina Hacker She trusted him. 1:15:37 Mina Hacker She knew that God is going to wipe out that land people, what God wants to wipe out. 1:15:46 Mina Hacker God accept that. 1:15:48 Mina Hacker God honored that. 1:15:53 Mina Hacker The root, the same way, is all trust behind. 1:15:57 Mina Hacker So I decided to trust God and he did it. 1:16:02 Mina Hacker Because I needed it. 1:16:04 Speaker 3 Yeah. 1:16:07 Mina Hacker And this morning, your teaching is that most you confirm what my mentally I work it out. 1:16:20 Mina Hacker I asked so many times why you save me person like me. 1:16:27 Mina Hacker who am I? 1:16:29 Mina Hacker why? 1:16:30 Mina Hacker And then 1:16:32 Mina Hacker I come to, actually it was a couple years ago, I realized, it's because God created human originally in his image. 1:16:45 Speaker 3 Yes. 1:16:45 Mina Hacker And you just nailed it this morning. 1:16:50 Sean Finnegan That's why we have value. 1:16:53 Mina Hacker That's why we are valued, not just because of what we are doing, you know, whatever. 1:17:01 Mina Hacker So anyway, those kind of things really worked through my head. 1:17:06 Mina Hacker And then I just keep reading things. 1:17:10 Mina Hacker As I'm reading, these kind of stories are sticking out at me, it's like there's a, Second Kings chapter 5, three, there's a servant of Naaman. 1:17:27 Mina Hacker Urban of Naaman, which is she is like captive from Assyrian and captured by Assyrian. 1:17:36 Mina Hacker And then she was a slave too. 1:17:38 Sean Finnegan Yeah, she was an Israelite slave in Syria. 1:17:43 Mina Hacker Yeah, in Syria. 1:17:44 Sean Finnegan Just like you had been a slave. 1:17:46 Sean Finnegan So yeah. 1:17:48 Mina Hacker And she introduced the prophet in Israel and Naaman got killed. 1:17:56 Mina Hacker things like that. 1:17:57 Mina Hacker Those kind of stories really is like, I mean, just tons more. 1:18:01 Speaker 3 Yeah. 1:18:01 Sean Finnegan So it's like reading the Bible was therapy for you. 1:18:07 Mina Hacker That was therapy for me. 1:18:09 Mina Hacker Yeah. 1:18:09 Mina Hacker Because you're. 1:18:10 Sean Finnegan Seeing other people that seem to have a similar story or the same story or to some degree, same experiences. 1:18:21 Sean Finnegan And you're seeing that God accepted them over and over again. 1:18:24 Sean Finnegan God accepted Rahab into the people of Israel. 1:18:28 Sean Finnegan God accepted Ruth into the people of Israel. 1:18:32 Sean Finnegan God worked through the slave girl to bring healing to Naaman. 1:18:36 Sean Finnegan So that showed you that God cares about you, that God thinks you're worthy. 1:18:44 Mina Hacker Exactly. 1:18:46 Mina Hacker And not with a like 1:18:50 Mina Hacker what shameful prison I was in was because society, way the world society, way to set it up, you just can't get away with it. 1:19:03 Mina Hacker You just can't get out. 1:19:05 Mina Hacker You know, you just encaged with the world viewpoint. 1:19:11 Mina Hacker Like, you know, but like when I read Hebrews, 1:19:17 Mina Hacker One day I was reading Hebrews chapter 1132, there was a hero of trust to all the people who believe God trust is talking about one of the name was Jephthah. 1:19:33 Mina Hacker And I mean, back then I was not familiar with this person's name, Jephthah. 1:19:40 Mina Hacker I know many others. 1:19:43 Mina Hacker So I decided to, wow, who is this chapter? 1:19:46 Mina Hacker And happened to be he was prostitute's son. 1:19:50 Speaker 3 Yeah. 1:19:52 Mina Hacker And in a judge, you know, George 11, one, and then it took a chapter and half to how he delivered Israel. 1:20:05 Mina Hacker He got kicked out of his siblings because he was prostitute's son. 1:20:15 Mina Hacker that's the role is for you. 1:20:17 Mina Hacker But God thinks a different way. 1:20:21 Speaker 3 Yeah. 1:20:23 Sean Finnegan God. 1:20:23 Sean Finnegan So this, if I remember right, Jephthah is one of Gideon's sons. 1:20:28 Mina Hacker Yeah. 1:20:28 Sean Finnegan And Gideon was a mighty man, but, and Gideon had all these sons, like dozens of sons. 1:20:35 Sean Finnegan But then there was like one random other son through a prostitute. 1:20:39 Sean Finnegan And 1:20:40 Sean Finnegan He becomes the most significant of all the sons and he becomes the judge in Israel, which once again shows you that God will work through somebody who comes from a low position to accomplish his purposes. 1:20:58 Mina Hacker Things like that. 1:21:00 Mina Hacker Yeah. 1:21:01 Sean Finnegan So you and Lou both became Christians. 1:21:05 Sean Finnegan And how did that change your life? 1:21:10 Mina Hacker It really completely turned around. 1:21:14 Mina Hacker we had a real good marriage and he was a good man when he stopped drinking and he was really a giver. 1:21:30 Mina Hacker And then after something happened, I mean, after the 1:21:37 Mina Hacker The previous church got corrupt, so we left that church. 1:21:42 Mina Hacker Then we were kind of like a struggle for a while. 1:21:48 Mina Hacker I was looking for the better church. 1:21:53 Mina Hacker He just distrusted this religious leader. 1:21:58 Mina Hacker He is trying to do at home by himself. 1:22:02 Mina Hacker And during that time, we had a marriage problem. 1:22:08 Mina Hacker And the, there's, I don't want to go to details there because then we almost, ended our marriage. 1:22:23 Mina Hacker Then I just kept on praying because my husband was unfaithful. 1:22:29 Mina Hacker So I just keep on praying 1:22:32 Mina Hacker and hung on to that First Corinthians, the unbelieving spouse and believing spouse and, whatever, that if they want to live together, happy to live together with you, don't live on, if they want to depart from you, let them go. 1:22:51 Mina Hacker I just hung on to one, for longest time, I hung on to that scripture and just be faithful. 1:23:03 Mina Hacker And then one day my husband, my prayers answer, we got invited to, there was, that time there was Christian educational service, or could be spiritual, but back then already changed to the couple called Karen Tyson, Gary and Karen Tyson. 1:23:30 Mina Hacker invented one flash seminar. 1:23:34 Mina Hacker It was like 5 days couples retreat. 1:23:38 Mina Hacker And they invented and they were trying out in the family of people that they know. 1:23:45 Mina Hacker And third time they were trying out, we got invited. 1:23:50 Mina Hacker And that was my prayer's answer. 1:23:53 Mina Hacker We got there. 1:23:57 Sean Finnegan So tell me more about that. 1:23:59 Sean Finnegan Was that up in, where do they live in Michigan or something? 1:24:02 Sean Finnegan Or where are they? 1:24:03 Mina Hacker Yeah, we're living in Michigan right now. 1:24:05 Sean Finnegan So you traveled up there with Lou for a 5 day? 1:24:08 Mina Hacker Yeah, in Indianapolis, yes, Oh, it wasn't that easy, you know, when I slowly up to, as praying, I slowly trying to get closer to him. 1:24:23 Mina Hacker and listening to teaching tapes when we go long ride, and purposely I put it on a car because I told him, I told him, I haven't had a time to listen, So slowly, he was catching on. 1:24:45 Mina Hacker Then later, 1:24:49 Mina Hacker we know we were good to each other, but we were not marriage couple. 1:24:56 Mina Hacker I know it wasn't a marriage couple that God expect us to do. 1:25:01 Mina Hacker So I pray about it. 1:25:03 Mina Hacker That's when that one flash seminar happened and got there. 1:25:08 Mina Hacker What happened was that he was unfaithful, but he was not telling me. 1:25:14 Mina Hacker That's what threw wedge. 1:25:18 Mina Hacker in distance, there was always the elephant in the room, So, I mean, I can say this because he's gone now, he passed away. 1:25:33 Mina Hacker And I think it's a value to share because a lot of times, we too quick to just separate, in a marriage, It's much prayer really helps 1:25:48 Mina Hacker what to do. 1:25:49 Mina Hacker some marriage, I don't encourage to stay because it's really hurtful. 1:25:56 Mina Hacker But some marriages, it's worth the try. 1:25:59 Speaker 3 Yeah. 1:26:00 Sean Finnegan So you didn't even know that he had been unfaithful? 1:26:03 Sean Finnegan You just knew there was something wrong and you wanted to get some help. 1:26:07 Mina Hacker Yes. 1:26:07 Sean Finnegan And then when you went to get the help, that's one of the. 1:26:10 Mina Hacker Things that- I did not choose to overjealous, you know, make it 1:26:15 Mina Hacker During that unfaithful, he was unfaithful a couple years, I think, after confessions came out. 1:26:24 Mina Hacker 14 years later, that confession came out. 1:26:28 Sean Finnegan 14 years later. 1:26:30 Mina Hacker Yeah. 1:26:30 Sean Finnegan Oh, wow. 1:26:31 Sean Finnegan Okay. 1:26:32 Mina Hacker Through that Christian seminar, the couples retreat, that's when truth came out. 1:26:42 Mina Hacker up to that point, I was kind of wondering, am I really overjealous? 1:26:47 Sean Finnegan Okay. 1:26:49 Sean Finnegan So you must have had some sense in you that something was wrong or else you wouldn't have been jealous. 1:26:54 Mina Hacker Right, So one time I give a madam, rather married or your friend, 1:27:04 Mina Hacker And he, at one point, he said, wow, you're overjealous. 1:27:08 Mina Hacker So, he was going to leave me. 1:27:10 Mina Hacker Then somehow he changed his mind. 1:27:12 Mina Hacker He never left. 1:27:13 Mina Hacker So that's when I decided to just hang on. 1:27:18 Sean Finnegan All right. 1:27:18 Sean Finnegan So this five day seminar involved teaching, counseling too, or what else? 1:27:26 Mina Hacker Yeah. 1:27:29 Mina Hacker counseling and 1:27:32 Mina Hacker group counseling, not specific, but someone who need a specific and then other break time, the counsel too. 1:27:42 Sean Finnegan And you found this whole time to be very helpful. 1:27:47 Mina Hacker Yes. 1:27:48 Sean Finnegan Okay. 1:27:49 Mina Hacker Yeah. 1:27:52 Mina Hacker But anyway, they don't, I mean, she's still, she's a marriage counselor now, but 1:28:01 Mina Hacker She's not doing that seminar, I don't think. 1:28:05 Mina Hacker So anyway, Gary Tyson, right? 1:28:10 Mina Hacker No. 1:28:10 Sean Finnegan I don't know the two very well, but I've seen them speak once at an event that I attended. 1:28:18 Mina Hacker So anyway, yeah, I wish that program still continue on. 1:28:25 Mina Hacker You know, that really turned our, change our marriage, you know, every day. 1:28:30 Mina Hacker Just, yeah. 1:28:32 Sean Finnegan And you were married for a long time after that as well. 1:28:36 Mina Hacker And another 14 years. 1:28:38 Sean Finnegan Another 14 years, okay. 1:28:41 Sean Finnegan So would you say the 2nd 14 years were better than the first 14 years? 1:28:46 Mina Hacker Second, oh, that 14 years is a real marriage. 1:28:50 Mina Hacker I never thought that it was exist. 1:28:56 Mina Hacker Yeah, that was. 1:28:58 Mina Hacker I never even dreamed of. 1:28:59 Mina Hacker It was like, at the end, I mean, it was like, if no one trusts each other, if no one trusts, we can trust each other. 1:29:13 Speaker 3 Wow. 1:29:16 Mina Hacker You know, besides God and our Lord. 1:29:19 Speaker 3 Yeah. 1:29:21 Speaker 3 Very good. 1:29:22 Sean Finnegan All right, what else should we cover? 1:29:25 Mina Hacker Wow. 1:29:30 Mina Hacker I guess that's pretty much it. 1:29:33 Mina Hacker I mean, I'm sure there's so many things I left out, I think I share most important thing, that how that God and all, this is what I want to sum it up. 1:29:51 Mina Hacker What really delivered me out of 1:29:56 Mina Hacker prisoner of shame is keep on learning about God, his nature, how he handle people in the Bible, and also constantly be with faithful Christians. 1:30:18 Mina Hacker I mean, honest, true Christians who try to 1:30:25 Mina Hacker follow the Christ, wanted to be like Christ. 1:30:30 Mina Hacker And that really helped me, in between studying Bible, good teachers, good Bible teachers, and faithful Christian brothers and sisters who encourage you, who pointing out to you, and also find a common ground, and 1:30:53 Mina Hacker they all share about their weaknesses and their honesty not to be truthful with themselves and appreciate what God had done and combine all of those things and over time, I am I be able to share my story 1:31:23 Mina Hacker openly like this, I don't think otherwise it's possible. 1:31:31 Sean Finnegan Well, most people who have had trauma in their lives, sexual trauma in particular, are not going to talk about it like you have just talked about it. 1:31:41 Mina Hacker Right. 1:31:41 Sean Finnegan They're just not, because the shame is still there and they are concerned what other people will think. 1:31:52 Sean Finnegan And you have a freedom because of the healing you've received to be able to talk about this. 1:32:01 Sean Finnegan I am not forcing you to talk about this. 1:32:04 Sean Finnegan I merely asked because I saw you talking about this in another place, in another interview. 1:32:14 Sean Finnegan And I wanted to hear your story more fully because I 1:32:19 Sean Finnegan I think there were more details that you revealed here that you didn't previously. 1:32:25 Sean Finnegan And to me, it reminds me of Louis Zamperini. 1:32:29 Sean Finnegan He's a famous runner, Olympic runner, who went into World War II and was captured by the Japanese. 1:32:38 Sean Finnegan And he was made a prisoner of war and he was tortured, but then eventually released, came back to the United States. 1:32:44 Sean Finnegan And 1:32:45 Sean Finnegan he became a Christian under the preaching of Billy Graham. 1:32:48 Sean Finnegan And when he became a Christian, he too was able to receive the healing that he needed to stop having the nightmares and the flashbacks. 1:33:00 Sean Finnegan And he was able to talk about his experience in the war. 1:33:05 Sean Finnegan A lot of other people won't talk about the war because 1:33:10 Sean Finnegan it's too emotional or it's too embarrassing or it's too intense, right? 1:33:16 Sean Finnegan But Zamperini, they wrote a book about him called Unbroken and then became a movie. 1:33:22 Sean Finnegan He was still able to talk about it. 1:33:23 Sean Finnegan And to me, like that's the signal of somebody who has received healing, is that you can talk about it and it's not right up in your throat, you know, that pain. 1:33:33 Sean Finnegan Not that it is a happy thing to talk about, but it is something that you can do. 1:33:38 Sean Finnegan So I think 1:33:39 Sean Finnegan you are able to testify here today that God is still alive and working and setting people free. 1:33:50 Sean Finnegan And I hope that if anybody out there has had similar experiences, that they too can receive freedom, whether through taking a class or reading the Bible or going for counseling or however it works out specifically. 1:34:08 Sean Finnegan But the one thing I want to say, just as we're closing down here, that has always impressed me about you is your tenacity. 1:34:18 Sean Finnegan You have a perseverance, like, you know the phrase, a dog on a bone? 1:34:24 Sean Finnegan You try to pull the bone out of the dog's mouth and it won't let go. 1:34:29 Sean Finnegan That's like you, where you're just pursuing, once you came to hear about God, you just pursue, pursue, pursue. 1:34:35 Sean Finnegan and you want to read the Bible and you want to read it and study it and you want to gain the information, the knowledge, starting from zero. 1:34:46 Sean Finnegan And now you are a woman, because when I met you, which is only a few years ago, I don't know how many years ago, but maybe 5 or 10 years ago, you were already a woman of great confidence. 1:35:01 Sean Finnegan And when I met you, I said, wow, this 1:35:04 Sean Finnegan This is somebody that knows what she believes and that knows why she believes it and that has a firm foundation and a strong faith and is not a, nobody's gonna push, you're not a very tall person, but nobody's gonna push you around. 1:35:20 Sean Finnegan That's the impression, you know, and I saw that you were a successful businesswoman and that, you know, you are 1:35:27 Sean Finnegan somebody effective in ministry and having fellowships at your house and other Korean women that you work with, that's how I saw you. 1:35:35 Sean Finnegan So to hear your story and all that you've been through is just absolutely incredible. 1:35:42 Sean Finnegan So I appreciate you sharing all that. 1:35:47 Mina Hacker I appreciate the way you look at me. 1:35:50 Mina Hacker That's, you know, that really helped me to, I see, I didn't feel that way. 1:35:58 Mina Hacker where you see me. 1:36:01 Mina Hacker I just try every day a little better, All. 1:36:07 Sean Finnegan Right, I think that's it for today. 1:36:10 Sean Finnegan Anything else you'd like to say before we close out? 1:36:15 Mina Hacker Well, I guess that's it. 1:36:17 Sean Finnegan What would you say to somebody who is maybe going to watch this later and they're not sure? 1:36:26 Mina Hacker I say, 1:36:29 Mina Hacker If God can save me and set me free from all the shame that world throw at me, there's nothing that God cannot deliver. 1:36:43 Mina Hacker So what main thing person got to do is trust him, his authority. 1:36:55 Mina Hacker God's authority. 1:36:57 Mina Hacker That's what he's honored. 1:36:59 Speaker 3 Yeah. 1:37:01 Sean Finnegan Awesome. 1:37:02 Sean Finnegan Well, thanks so much for talking with me today. 1:37:05 Mina Hacker Well, thank you for having me, Sean. 1:37:11 Sean Finnegan Well, that brings to an end this interview with Mina Hacker. 1:37:15 Sean Finnegan If you have any questions or thoughts or comments, come on to restitudio.org. 1:37:21 Sean Finnegan It's like the word restitution with no end and find episode 667. 1:37:26 Sean Finnegan how God healed me from the shame of prostitution and leave your feedback there. 1:37:33 Sean Finnegan Well, as it turns out, this week I am out of town, actually in Kenya, Africa, where I am visiting a pastor there and speaking at a church in the Kesi area. 1:37:48 Sean Finnegan But I'm recording this ahead of time, so all I can say is I hope I'm having a great time. 1:37:53 Sean Finnegan in Africa. 1:37:54 Sean Finnegan Usually when I've gone, I've been to Africa a number of times. 1:37:57 Sean Finnegan This is my fourth time visiting the continent of Africa, although Africa is such a big place, it's hard to universalize what conditions are like or what my experiences have been like. 1:38:08 Sean Finnegan But this is my second time visiting the western part of Kenya in particular. 1:38:14 Sean Finnegan And there's a lot of wonderful people there that I admire greatly for their passion, for their courage. 1:38:23 Sean Finnegan and I hope to share more with you when I get back from visiting some pastors over here in Kenya. 1:38:31 Sean Finnegan Well, I hope to be able to read out some feedback for you from our episode last week with Jeremy Martin. 1:38:38 Sean Finnegan What an incredible episode that was. 1:38:40 Sean Finnegan And then this week with Mina Hacker, I've got one more episode lined up in a kind of three-part mini series here on 1:38:50 Sean Finnegan how God transforms people's lives and how God is alive and active today, healing and restoring and how Christianity is incredibly powerful, especially for those who have faced an incredible amount of shame in their lives. 1:39:08 Sean Finnegan And all shame of course is not bad. 1:39:10 Sean Finnegan Some shame is good. 1:39:11 Sean Finnegan You should feel bad when you do something wrong. 1:39:15 Sean Finnegan But there's a toxic form of shame that lingers and turns into a feeling of unworthiness that really can imprison us in such a dark place. 1:39:27 Sean Finnegan And I so appreciate how Mina explained her experience. 1:39:32 Sean Finnegan And I'm looking forward to our interview next week where another lady in my church shares about her own experience of transformation. 1:39:41 Sean Finnegan It's a different 1:39:43 Sean Finnegan totally different story than what we looked at here with Mina. 1:39:46 Sean Finnegan But I think you'll get the impression that God is alive today. 1:39:51 Sean Finnegan God is active. 1:39:52 Sean Finnegan God is moving. 1:39:53 Sean Finnegan The only question is, what are you doing? 1:39:55 Sean Finnegan How are you partnering with God? 1:39:57 Sean Finnegan The motto of this podcast is restoring authentic Christianity and living it out today. 1:40:04 Sean Finnegan And we do spend 1:40:06 Sean Finnegan a lot of time thinking about how to restore authentic Christianity. 1:40:09 Sean Finnegan What does that mean? 1:40:10 Sean Finnegan Who's the authentic God? 1:40:12 Sean Finnegan Who's the authentic Jesus? 1:40:13 Sean Finnegan What's the authentic teaching of the Bible? 1:40:16 Sean Finnegan And that's, of course, always going to be an important part of this podcast. 1:40:21 Sean Finnegan But I live in the real world with real people. 1:40:24 Sean Finnegan And as a pastor, I see how people's lives, some people whose lives change and other people whose lives don't change. 1:40:31 Sean Finnegan And so that's the second-half of the motto of Restitudio is 1:40:35 Sean Finnegan living out our faith today. 1:40:37 Sean Finnegan What good is it to restore authentic Christianity if you just know it in your mind, but you don't actually put it into practice in your life and in your relationships with people? 1:40:48 Sean Finnegan And I think if you are a genuine Christian, then you should seek opportunities to share your faith with others. 1:40:55 Sean Finnegan And sometimes we look at others and we say, oh my goodness, this person is in prostitution. 1:41:01 Sean Finnegan Or our previous week, this person 1:41:04 Sean Finnegan is a pothead and a video game addict, or maybe it's somebody that has tattoos on their face or just comes from a different walk of life than you do. 1:41:16 Sean Finnegan Maybe it's a businessman or a businesswoman who seems intimidating in their power blazer and their fancy car and seems like they have their life altogether. 1:41:24 Sean Finnegan They don't need God, right? 1:41:26 Sean Finnegan So whatever it is, my point is that God is reaching people, but he does this through people. 1:41:32 Sean Finnegan He does this when we invite people to come to church. 1:41:35 Sean Finnegan He does this when we share our own story of faith. 1:41:38 Sean Finnegan He does this when we tell others, for example, about this podcast episode. 1:41:42 Sean Finnegan You know somebody that's struggling with shame? 1:41:44 Sean Finnegan I bet that person wasn't twice enslaved in South Korea like Mina was. 1:41:49 Sean Finnegan I mean, this is such an extreme case of trauma that it really should be able to speak to so many different people, both women and men, who have endured some sort of trauma on this scale that results in lasting shame. 1:42:03 Sean Finnegan So my point is 1:42:04 Sean Finnegan I love these episodes. 1:42:06 Sean Finnegan I know that they might seem a little off-brand to some of you who just think I should do theology stuff, but hey look, I am a whole person. 1:42:15 Sean Finnegan I am not just. 1:42:17 Sean Finnegan into theology. 1:42:18 Sean Finnegan I am into theology. 1:42:19 Sean Finnegan I'm so deep into theology. 1:42:20 Sean Finnegan It's not even funny how deep into theology I am. 1:42:23 Sean Finnegan But that's not everything in life, is it? 1:42:25 Sean Finnegan So seeing how God transforms lives, I hope builds your faith and will also help you to share your faith with others. 1:42:33 Sean Finnegan And I hope you will share this episode with others because this episode can do a lot of good as people hear this incredible story of redemption. 1:42:40 Sean Finnegan Talk about an incredible freedom that this woman of God has. 1:42:45 Sean Finnegan even though she has this backstory that she has peace in her heart and she has a sense of value because she knows she's made in the image of God. 1:42:55 Sean Finnegan She knows that God has reached out to people like her throughout the pages of scripture that she reads and she knows that God loves her and that she has a place in our community. 1:43:05 Sean Finnegan In fact, she's going to be leading a small group coming up in the next couple of weeks in our local church here, Living Hope Community Church in Latham, New York. 1:43:15 Sean Finnegan So thanks so much everybody for listening. 1:43:17 Sean Finnegan If you'd like to support us, you can do that at restitudio.org. 1:43:21 Sean Finnegan Thanks to all of you who are supporting us, especially on a monthly basis. 1:43:24 Sean Finnegan It makes such a difference. 1:43:26 Sean Finnegan I'll catch you next week. 1:43:27 Sean Finnegan And remember, the truth has nothing to fear.