This is the transcript of Restitutio episode 666: I Quit Weed and Video Games to Serve God with Jeremy Martin This transcript was auto-generated and only approximates the contents of this episode. Audio file 666 Jeremy Martin.mp3 Transcript 00:00 Sean Finnegan Hey there, I'm Sean Finnegan and you are listening to Restitudio, a podcast that seeks to recover authentic Christianity and live it out today. 00:12 Sean Finnegan Jeremy Martin is a complicated man. 00:14 Sean Finnegan Although raised in a Christian home, he chose a different path. 00:18 Sean Finnegan At 18 years old, he embraced the party lifestyle of drinking alcohol and using drugs of various kinds. 00:25 Sean Finnegan Before long, he found himself sucked into a criminal lifestyle, including an 8 year stretch where he earned his living from crime. 00:33 Sean Finnegan At 25, he had to flee Arizona in order to escape murder. 00:38 Sean Finnegan Now at this point in the story, I bet you're expecting me to say something like, then Jeremy met God and changed his life and has been faithfully serving him ever since. 00:49 Sean Finnegan Nope, that's not how the story goes. 00:52 Sean Finnegan It's way more complicated than that. 00:55 Sean Finnegan I'll have to let him explain it. 00:56 Sean Finnegan Rest assured though, you're in for a treat. 00:59 Sean Finnegan Jeremy shows us that God doesn't quit on people, even if people quit on him. 01:05 Sean Finnegan He shows us that it's never too late to start serving God. 01:08 Sean Finnegan And he shows us that true satisfaction isn't found in distractions like marijuana and video games, but in doing good for others. 01:18 Sean Finnegan Here now is episode 666, I quit weed and video games to serve God with Jeremy Martin. 01:33 Sean Finnegan Today with me is Jeremy Martin. 01:35 Sean Finnegan I'm really excited to talk to you today, Jeremy. 01:37 Sean Finnegan Thanks for joining me. 01:39 Jeremy Martin Thank you. 01:39 Jeremy Martin I'm very excited and honored to be here, Sean. 01:41 Sean Finnegan So let's start with your childhood. 01:43 Sean Finnegan What was it like growing up in the home that you grew up in with your parents and your sibling? 01:49 Sean Finnegan And let's start there and then we'll kind of make our way through your journey of faith. 01:55 Jeremy Martin Absolutely. 01:56 Jeremy Martin No, 01:57 Jeremy Martin My parents were great folks. 02:00 Jeremy Martin Most of you have probably heard of them, Joe and Rebecca Martin. 02:02 Jeremy Martin They're just really good people. 02:03 Jeremy Martin They're good Christian, grounded, deeply honest, faithful people. 02:10 Jeremy Martin And I grew up with them my whole life. 02:14 Jeremy Martin At the beginning of my life, you could say I had a drug problem because I was drugged to church every Sunday. 02:21 Jeremy Martin But it was honestly, there was no issues. 02:26 Jeremy Martin Any of the faults that came later in my life, I certainly can't point at anybody but myself because they did a fantastic job raising me. 02:33 Jeremy Martin They took me to church. 02:34 Jeremy Martin We talked deeply about our faith and stuff like that. 02:38 Jeremy Martin And I just 02:39 Jeremy Martin They were good parents. 02:40 Jeremy Martin I had a good family. 02:41 Jeremy Martin I had a good upbringing. 02:43 Jeremy Martin I was never hungry. 02:44 Jeremy Martin the lights were always on. 02:48 Jeremy Martin I had no complaints. 02:50 Sean Finnegan What states did you grow up in? 02:52 Sean Finnegan Where did you live? 02:53 Jeremy Martin Well, I started in Louisiana because my mom and dad were from Pumpkin Center, Louisiana, as he'll be happy to tell you often. 03:01 Jeremy Martin And we moved around a bit because he was a pastor. 03:05 Jeremy Martin And so we moved out to Arizona and then California and then back to Arizona and kind of all over the place. 03:11 Jeremy Martin We were in Virginia for a little bit. 03:13 Speaker 3 Okay. 03:14 Sean Finnegan And you are in Tennessee now? 03:17 Jeremy Martin I am. 03:18 Jeremy Martin in Tennessee. 03:19 Jeremy Martin And you've been there for quite some time. 03:22 Jeremy Martin Yes, at least 20 years now. 03:23 Sean Finnegan Okay. 03:24 Sean Finnegan So that's where you landed, but you started out kind of going from state to state as your dad would pastor one church and then another. 03:35 Sean Finnegan So what was it like when you came to an age where you could make your own decisions and you didn't have to go to church if you didn't want to? 03:45 Sean Finnegan Tell me about that part of your life. 03:48 Jeremy Martin I started leaning pretty heavily into my own understanding. 03:51 Jeremy Martin And I've been writing devotionals for Seek Girl Love. 03:54 Jeremy Martin And if you go back through the history of it and just type in my name, you can see kind of my journey because I've been very open about it. 04:02 Jeremy Martin But I started to be very rebellious. 04:04 Jeremy Martin As soon as I turned 18, I thought I had complete autonomy, even though mom and dad were still paying all the bills and had bought my car and were paying for my insurance and all that stuff. 04:13 Jeremy Martin I was an adult now. 04:15 Jeremy Martin And I started making my own decisions and I started making poor decisions. 04:20 Jeremy Martin And eventually got to the point where I was just not a good kid. 04:24 Jeremy Martin I was a bad guy. 04:25 Jeremy Martin I was a career criminal for probably about 8 years. 04:30 Speaker 3 Wow. 04:33 Sean Finnegan What does that mean, a career criminal? 04:37 Jeremy Martin It was deceptively smooth transition, honestly, from an innocent, naive kid into this just world of hooligans and debauchery. 04:47 Jeremy Martin I started smoking pot and drinking probably 16, 15 or 16. 04:54 Jeremy Martin And by the time I was 18, I was hanging out with people that did that kind of thing also. 05:00 Jeremy Martin So I was still. 05:01 Jeremy Martin filling pot on the side to support my pot habit. 05:04 Jeremy Martin And I kind of moved into heavier drugs. 05:05 Jeremy Martin And the more I got into that environment, the farther away from God I got. 05:13 Jeremy Martin And of course, the deeper into that lifestyle I got. 05:16 Jeremy Martin Till it got to the point where I was hanging out with some really bad people, doing really bad stuff. 05:21 Sean Finnegan What do you think drew you to that? 05:22 Sean Finnegan Because it's not like you were getting beaten at home or had some sort of like something to run away from. 05:30 Jeremy Martin No, they were fine for me at the house. 05:33 Jeremy Martin I think honestly, it was the allure of the naughtiness initially, and it's I get to do what I want and I'm an adult and I can do this. 05:44 Jeremy Martin And it was kind of fun for a little bit. 05:46 Jeremy Martin And then I started doing stuff and it was getting a little risky and I got kind of an adrenaline rush from doing some of the risky things that we were doing. 05:55 Jeremy Martin And it just got worse and worse and worse. 05:58 Jeremy Martin I guess to the same reason people jump off a perfectly good airplane with a parachute. 06:02 Jeremy Martin You get a thrill doing it for a moment and then you don't realize, hey, there's a ground beneath you and it's coming up pretty rapidly. 06:10 Speaker 3 Yeah. 06:10 Sean Finnegan So you were looking for excitement. 06:14 Sean Finnegan You were looking for adventure. 06:15 Sean Finnegan You were looking for, I guess, feeling alive. 06:20 Jeremy Martin I was, and I'll also say that it was the easy way to make money. 06:25 Jeremy Martin And once I was making decent money and I was doing fairly well in my chosen branches of that occupation. 06:36 Jeremy Martin Once you start taking the easy path, it's easier to keep going down the easy path. 06:41 Jeremy Martin And it was just a lot easier. 06:43 Jeremy Martin I mean, like, why get a job? 06:44 Jeremy Martin Jobs are for suckers. 06:45 Jeremy Martin So I got this going on. 06:47 Jeremy Martin And so it was a combination of the 06:51 Jeremy Martin financial rewards and also the thrill, honestly. 06:54 Sean Finnegan And when was this, when you were about 18, 19, what year was that like? 07:00 Jeremy Martin Oh geez. 07:00 Sean Finnegan Get a perspective on it. 07:03 Sean Finnegan When did you graduate high school, I guess? 07:06 Jeremy Martin Eighty-six. 07:06 Jeremy Martin I had to think back for a moment. 07:07 Jeremy Martin I graduated at 86. 07:08 Sean Finnegan It's so long ago. 07:11 Jeremy Martin Yeah. 07:11 Sean Finnegan All right, so this is late 80s. 07:17 Jeremy Martin Arizona. 07:17 Jeremy Martin We were in Arizona at the time. 07:18 Sean Finnegan So Arizona, late 80s, across the United States, there was a lot of drugs coming in really for the first time. 07:25 Sean Finnegan A lot of cocaine use and other drugs. 07:29 Sean Finnegan You were into that lifestyle, into the party lifestyle, into crime for pay. 07:34 Sean Finnegan And were you still living at home or were you able to make enough to move out? 07:40 Jeremy Martin Oh no. 07:40 Jeremy Martin When I was 18, my father and I had a very 07:44 Jeremy Martin I could just imagine. 07:48 Sean Finnegan What that was like because you guys are both pretty intense. 07:52 Jeremy Martin We can be, but no, I think I'd come home about one or two in the morning and obviously probably inebriated and he was in my face going, listen, when you're living in my house, you're going to abide by my rules and this is not going to cut it, mister. 08:06 Jeremy Martin And I said, well, listen, I'm 18, I'm an adult, I can do whatever I want. 08:10 Jeremy Martin we just kind of butted heads for a second. 08:12 Jeremy Martin And I think I moved out like the next day. 08:14 Speaker 3 Okay. 08:15 Jeremy Martin So I was able to, I had the financial wherewithal and I stayed gone for about 8 years. 08:21 Jeremy Martin And every now and then we would see each other and we were still amicable. 08:25 Jeremy Martin We didn't, we, but I was clearly off on left, in left field and he was clearly off in the other direction. 08:33 Sean Finnegan Is your sister younger than you? 08:35 Jeremy Martin Yes, she's four years younger. 08:37 Jeremy Martin Four years younger. 08:38 Sean Finnegan He probably had a concern about how you would, your lifestyle would affect her. 08:43 Jeremy Martin Absolutely. 08:44 Speaker 3 Yeah. 08:44 Jeremy Martin Absolutely. 08:45 Sean Finnegan Yeah. 08:45 Jeremy Martin No, there was all kinds of layers to it socially and emotionally, but no, and we moved from, I moved from the drugs to doing, you know, some light breaking into entering and then doing other stuffs. 08:59 Jeremy Martin And it was just, it was just a bad, a bad scene. 09:02 Speaker 3 Okay. 09:03 Sean Finnegan So that would characterize that whole eight-year period. 09:08 Jeremy Martin Yes. 09:09 Jeremy Martin And with the progress progressively getting worse, worse and worse and worse. 09:12 Jeremy Martin And the more the more you're in that lifestyle, the more of those people that you get to know and the more that becomes your lifestyle. 09:20 Sean Finnegan What did you look like in those days? 09:24 Sean Finnegan Paint us a picture so we can imagine what young Jeremy looked like. 09:29 Jeremy Martin I was a scrawny punk with a Mohawk that was probably about down to about the middle of my back. 09:37 Speaker 3 A Mohawk, huh? 09:39 Jeremy Martin A Mohawk. 09:39 Jeremy Martin I actually, when I got out of that lifestyle, I went to from immediately hard stop from that lifestyle to the Bible college. 09:47 Jeremy Martin There's a story there obviously, but I think I was the only kid that ever went to the Bible college with the Mohawk and I didn't have it spiked up or anything, but I did have a... 09:57 Jeremy Martin an interesting haircut for a Bible college student. 10:00 Sean Finnegan Yeah, Did you have a regular car? 10:03 Sean Finnegan Were you driving a motorcycle or what else? 10:08 Jeremy Martin I had a regular car for a while. 10:10 Jeremy Martin It would change occasionally. 10:12 Jeremy Martin And that was also one of the things that we were doing. 10:14 Jeremy Martin So I would have a number of different cars on a number of different days. 10:18 Sean Finnegan Right. 10:20 Sean Finnegan And so you mentioned about going down to the Bible college. 10:24 Sean Finnegan That doesn't seem to fit with the story. 10:26 Sean Finnegan So tell us about what happened there. 10:30 Jeremy Martin No. 10:30 Jeremy Martin Well, you know, it's funny because some folks, like usually the more intelligent, less stubborn people, some folks, God will gently guide them into the path that they should take and they walk that way. 10:44 Jeremy Martin And some people he grabs by the throat and the short hairs and picks them up and places him where he wants them. 10:50 Jeremy Martin And that was in my case. 10:53 Jeremy Martin Through the course of my misadventures, I kind of, I got involved with some people that I should not have been involved with. 11:02 Jeremy Martin And I came to know some stuff that I should not know. 11:05 Jeremy Martin And it got dangerous. 11:07 Jeremy Martin It got dangerous to where my life was actually very much threatened. 11:12 Jeremy Martin I was probably going to die. 11:14 Jeremy Martin In fact, I was going to die. 11:16 Sean Finnegan And how old were you? 11:16 Sean Finnegan You're in your mid-20s at this point. 11:19 Jeremy Martin I'm about 25, right at 25. 11:22 Sean Finnegan And the situation you were involved in was such that you were like, I am a target. 11:29 Sean Finnegan My life is in danger. 11:31 Sean Finnegan I need to do something drastic to survive. 11:34 Jeremy Martin Yes. 11:35 Jeremy Martin And that was the case. 11:36 Jeremy Martin That was the case. 11:38 Jeremy Martin I called mom and dad in a, you know, desperate. 11:41 Jeremy Martin I was in a desperate situation. 11:43 Jeremy Martin I called mom and dad and I said, listen, 11:45 Jeremy Martin I'm not gonna make it. 11:46 Jeremy Martin There's some bad things going on and I can't give you all the details. 11:49 Jeremy Martin I still couldn't because it's beyond more than just myself. 11:52 Jeremy Martin But there was some bad, bad stuff going on and I needed to get out. 11:57 Jeremy Martin There's a guy that had canceled his plane ticket and they sent me that plane ticket in his name and I was out in 24 hours and I flew to Atlanta. 12:07 Jeremy Martin And they said, the condition is you can't, any of that stuff you've been doing, you can't do that, obviously. 12:15 Jeremy Martin you need to come down here and we would like you to go to the Bible college. 12:19 Jeremy Martin I said, okay. 12:22 Speaker 3 All right. 12:23 Jeremy Martin So I went down. 12:24 Speaker 3 Go ahead. 12:25 Jeremy Martin I went down to Atlanta and honestly, I was expecting any day to die because I knew that they were coming after me. 12:35 Jeremy Martin I knew that there were some bad things going on. 12:37 Jeremy Martin I was expecting any day to die. 12:39 Jeremy Martin I kept getting like little subtle messages from unexpected 12:43 Jeremy Martin people in unexpected places is just saying, hey, we haven't forgot about you, friend. 12:47 Jeremy Martin We're gonna have a talk real soon. 12:49 Jeremy Martin So I buried myself in the Bible looking for an out. 12:54 Jeremy Martin And of course, obviously by our discussion here, God gave me one. 12:59 Speaker 3 Yeah. 13:00 Sean Finnegan Can you give any more detail on why they wanted to kill you? 13:06 Sean Finnegan Or is it still alive issue that you wouldn't want to reveal? 13:11 Jeremy Martin There's no statute of limitations on some of that stuff. 13:13 Jeremy Martin So there's some stuff that I wouldn't want to reveal, but I will say I just found out some information that I shouldn't have and it put me in great risk. 13:20 Speaker 3 Okay. 13:22 Sean Finnegan All right. 13:22 Sean Finnegan So you tucked tail and ran down to the Bible college. 13:26 Jeremy Martin Absolutely. 13:27 Jeremy Martin I ran, I pulled a rabbit. 13:29 Sean Finnegan This is a major crisis in your life. 13:33 Sean Finnegan You know, the biggest crisis you could possibly face where your life is threatened, where you feel like 13:40 Sean Finnegan you need to preserve your own life. 13:43 Sean Finnegan You get down to the Bible college and you move back in with your parents. 13:47 Sean Finnegan Is that true? 13:48 Jeremy Martin Yes. 13:49 Jeremy Martin I had, I pretty much, that was my option. 13:51 Jeremy Martin I had no other options except to be homeless on the street. 13:55 Speaker 3 Okay. 13:56 Sean Finnegan And you started attending the Atlanta Bible College and what was it like for you? 14:00 Sean Finnegan It was a joyful experience or it was misery or what was it like? 14:06 Jeremy Martin It was different. 14:08 Jeremy Martin Let's put it that way. 14:08 Jeremy Martin It was extremely different. 14:10 Jeremy Martin Kent Ross asked me that in my first week. 14:13 Jeremy Martin I don't know if you remember Kent. 14:14 Jeremy Martin Kent was a great fella. 14:16 Jeremy Martin He reminded me of Friar Chuck. 14:18 Jeremy Martin I love Kent Ross. 14:18 Jeremy Martin He's such a good guy. 14:22 Jeremy Martin But he came up to me one time and he kind of looked at me side. 14:25 Jeremy Martin He was like, how are you doing, Jeremy? 14:27 Jeremy Martin How are you feeling? 14:28 Jeremy Martin And I kind of looked around and I'm with all these wholesome kids who are just awesome people who are studying God and good 14:37 Jeremy Martin Christian brothers and sisters. 14:39 Jeremy Martin And then there's me. 14:41 Jeremy Martin And I'm just, I know I'm a terrible person. 14:44 Jeremy Martin I've done terrible things. 14:46 Jeremy Martin I have a very painfully full understanding of my own depravity. 14:53 Jeremy Martin I kind of looked at Kent and I said, Kent, I don't know, man. 14:55 Jeremy Martin It's really weird. 14:56 Jeremy Martin I feel like a wolf among sheep. 14:58 Jeremy Martin He just kind of laughed and he patted me on the shoulder and said, it'll get better. 15:01 Jeremy Martin It'll get better. 15:02 Jeremy Martin And it did. 15:04 Speaker 3 That's when you still had the Mohawk when he came up to you. 15:07 Jeremy Martin Yes, I had the Mohawk for probably the first year I was in the Bible college or longer. 15:13 Jeremy Martin But now if you know Andy Cisneros, ask Andy Cisneros because he was there when I first got there and I kind of walked in with an overcoat and I'm very I'm very on edge and I'm used I was scrappy as a young lad. 15:26 Jeremy Martin So I was used to scrapping a lot and that's probably one of the things that kept me alive because 15:32 Jeremy Martin It came to that point on a couple occasions before I left. 15:36 Jeremy Martin But when I met Andy Cisneros for the very first time in the lobby of the Bible college, he said, hey, I'm Andy. 15:42 Jeremy Martin And he flipped out his hand real quick and I put him on the ground because I just. 15:46 Jeremy Martin You thought he was. 15:48 Jeremy Martin Yeah, well, he just moved a little too quickly around me. 15:53 Speaker 3 I could totally see Andy doing that too. 15:55 Speaker 3 He's so outgoing and friendly. 15:58 Jeremy Martin Andy's awesome. 15:58 Jeremy Martin I love Andy to death. 15:59 Sean Finnegan I wonder how he, how did he respond to that? 16:02 Sean Finnegan Was he just like, what in the world? 16:04 Jeremy Martin He was just like, whoa, yeah, no, super good people. 16:09 Jeremy Martin And again, I was a wolf among sheep at the time because I had been living that lifestyle. 16:14 Jeremy Martin It was an abrupt transition, I guess you could say, quite abrupt. 16:19 Sean Finnegan So when you were there, you were studying, your dad was teaching there at that time or no? 16:26 Jeremy Martin He was. 16:27 Jeremy Martin He was. 16:27 Jeremy Martin I actually had a couple of his classes. 16:29 Jeremy Martin I took him for Old Testament and Hebrew. 16:31 Speaker 3 Okay. 16:32 Sean Finnegan Like Hebrew language or the book of Hebrews? 16:35 Jeremy Martin Hebrew language. 16:36 Jeremy Martin Hebrew language. 16:37 Jeremy Martin I had, he was one of my instructors. 16:39 Jeremy Martin Kent Ross was one of my instructors. 16:42 Jeremy Martin Sir Anthony Buzzard was one of my instructors. 16:45 Jeremy Martin Great group of Dale Ramsey. 16:48 Jeremy Martin David Crow, great group of people, really good people that were very understanding of my foolishness. 16:54 Jeremy Martin They were much more gracious to me than I deserved. 16:57 Sean Finnegan Okay, very good. 16:58 Sean Finnegan So then what happened next? 17:01 Jeremy Martin Well, I think it was about two years into the Bible college. 17:03 Jeremy Martin I started feeling weird. 17:06 Jeremy Martin I was getting deeply scriptural. 17:08 Jeremy Martin I was getting deeply spiritual, which is as or more important, I think. 17:14 Jeremy Martin And 17:15 Jeremy Martin at the time I started feeling weird about, because I saw the end of my career path here. 17:21 Jeremy Martin I was two years into the Bible college. 17:24 Jeremy Martin I basically had just short of my associates. 17:27 Jeremy Martin And I was like, well, the path for this is to become a pastor. 17:31 Jeremy Martin And I felt weird about, particularly considering my depravity and the awesomeness of the people around me. 17:39 Jeremy Martin I felt really weird about accepting 17:42 Jeremy Martin a paycheck to do what we should all be doing anyway. 17:44 Jeremy Martin And I saw that at the end of my college career. 17:46 Jeremy Martin So I went into just regular business. 17:50 Jeremy Martin I started working a real job and pursuing that as opposed to pursuing my bachelor's at the Bible College. 18:00 Speaker 3 Okay. 18:01 Sean Finnegan And so this is now moving forward into the 90s, into the late 90s. 18:10 Sean Finnegan And 18:11 Sean Finnegan Because I know I came across you and your wife and at least one or two of your kids around 2003. 18:21 Sean Finnegan And you were working some other job, but I'd see you once in a while on Sundays at Kent Ross's church, I think. 18:31 Sean Finnegan Yep. 18:32 Sean Finnegan What was that? 18:32 Sean Finnegan Simple. 18:33 Jeremy Martin New Friends Bible Church. 18:34 Sean Finnegan New Friends. 18:37 Sean Finnegan New Friends Bible Church. 18:38 Sean Finnegan Yeah. 18:38 Sean Finnegan So 18:40 Sean Finnegan Is that about where you were at that time? 18:42 Sean Finnegan Like you had done your two years and you were just working a typical job. 18:48 Jeremy Martin Yeah, typical job. 18:49 Sean Finnegan Found a wife, had kids. 18:50 Jeremy Martin Got the wife and 1.2 kids, working on just doing the American dream. 18:56 Jeremy Martin We were working on buying a house at the time. 19:00 Jeremy Martin And we actually did buy our first house in Atlanta. 19:02 Jeremy Martin I don't know if we had bought it when I had first met you or not. 19:06 Jeremy Martin But yeah, I was just basically pursuing 19:09 Jeremy Martin a job in the secular community. 19:11 Jeremy Martin And I wasn't really doing anything wrong, but I got to started to focus more on taking care of my family, more on, hey, I got to get some more income and stuff. 19:24 Jeremy Martin I did it all legitimately, but I started to lose focus on the scripture and I started to kind of be less intense with my focus on God. 19:36 Speaker 3 Okay. 19:37 Sean Finnegan So how would you characterize those years when you were living in the Atlanta area and you're working a job and you were married, you had the first couple of kids? 19:53 Sean Finnegan Would you say that you were pretty happy or content or you were like stressed out or like how would you characterize it? 20:03 Jeremy Martin A little bit of both. 20:03 Jeremy Martin It's just like everybody who's trying to raise a family. 20:07 Jeremy Martin I was always in the back of my head, I was cognizant of the fact that I'm alive through a miracle. 20:13 Jeremy Martin And I was, absolutely alive through a miracle. 20:16 Jeremy Martin So I always had that appreciation in the back of my head, but I also started to just be like, oh man, I got the rent, dude. 20:22 Jeremy Martin I got to pay for this. 20:23 Jeremy Martin And the kid needs bracelets. 20:24 Jeremy Martin I got to do this. 20:26 Jeremy Martin So I started to lose focus on and kind of immerse myself in the man stuff. 20:32 Jeremy Martin In our society, there's things that a man has to do. 20:36 Jeremy Martin to provide for the family. 20:37 Jeremy Martin And I just started to get immersed in those. 20:43 Jeremy Martin And honestly, after a while, it seemed like I was immersed in those things and I was trying to do those things. 20:51 Jeremy Martin And I was doing a good job as a provider, and I was still holding the faith, but I think gradually over a long period of time, this is, over a decade or so, it is over quite a while. 21:05 Jeremy Martin I just, 21:07 Jeremy Martin started to look back to some of the things I was doing, particularly smoking pot and drinking a lot with kind of a wistful longing, I guess you could say. 21:18 Sean Finnegan So take us to what happened next. 21:23 Jeremy Martin Well, it's, you know, there nothing really bad happened after that. 21:27 Jeremy Martin I mean, I was 21:30 Jeremy Martin I was working, providing for the family. 21:32 Jeremy Martin I think I was still making, for the most part, good decisions. 21:36 Jeremy Martin I remember one time when we had a choice between paying the visa bill or the tithe. 21:40 Jeremy Martin We paid the tithe and then unexpectedly got a check that covered the exact amount that we needed for the visa bill later. 21:48 Jeremy Martin Yeah, it's all kinds of stuff like that. 21:50 Jeremy Martin So it's really hard to summarize an existence in a few sentences. 21:57 Jeremy Martin But I did notice after a while, I started really thinking, I'm not going to do any of this other stuff that I used to do because I used to do a lot of hard drugs too. 22:07 Jeremy Martin But surely it wouldn't be too bad if I just, had a couple of beers with the fellas after work and maybe went and just had, smoked a little more pot and that would be fine? 22:16 Sean Finnegan So you were pretty much straight edge for years. 22:20 Jeremy Martin Years. 22:21 Sean Finnegan Years and then you said, well, maybe we could just do a little bit. 22:26 Jeremy Martin Maybe I'll just let this little bit back in. 22:28 Sean Finnegan Yeah, and how did that go for you? 22:31 Jeremy Martin Terribly. 22:36 Jeremy Martin It's like being a little pregnant. 22:37 Jeremy Martin It's like being a little pregnant. 22:38 Jeremy Martin Now, the thing is, I never went back to like I was before. 22:44 Jeremy Martin I can say with complete honesty, I never was 22:49 Jeremy Martin once breaking into stores or businesses or cracking safes or any of that stuff, not stealing cars, none of that stuff that was going on before. 22:59 Jeremy Martin But I did find myself slowly drifting away from God. 23:04 Jeremy Martin Just not so much as you'd notice it in a day or even maybe a month or even a year. 23:10 Jeremy Martin But when you stand at the end of 10 years and you look back and you're like, I've gotten pretty far off course here. 23:18 Jeremy Martin I became what I consider to be a Christian in name only. 23:22 Jeremy Martin Cino, a Christian in name only. 23:26 Jeremy Martin I'd still go to church every Sunday, you know. 23:30 Jeremy Martin I still knew where my Bible was. 23:34 Jeremy Martin It was right there on the table with a nice layer of dust on it. 23:39 Jeremy Martin I would still pray every time we sat down to eat. 23:43 Jeremy Martin But as far as like a relationship with God and that deep seeking that I had when I had first was in fear for my life and asking God to save me, it just kind of drifted away farther and farther away. 23:56 Sean Finnegan If you could go back and talk to yourself during that phase, what would you even say to yourself to like give yourself advice? 24:07 Jeremy Martin I would probably have to slap myself first because I'm stubborn and ignorant. 24:11 Jeremy Martin Yes, first thing, smack, listen, don't be dumb. 24:15 Jeremy Martin You're being stupid right now. 24:17 Jeremy Martin God saved you for a reason, and this is not being respectful of the amount of effort that was went to bring you to redemption. 24:26 Jeremy Martin You were bought at a price that was a very high price that you couldn't afford to pay in the 1st place. 24:31 Jeremy Martin So 24:32 Jeremy Martin This is just disrespectful. 24:34 Sean Finnegan Do you think you just didn't really have a way to serve God that was meaningful? 24:41 Sean Finnegan Like you were going to church, right? 24:42 Sean Finnegan But. 24:43 Jeremy Martin Yeah, I was going to church and I was. 24:46 Sean Finnegan That wasn't enough. 24:46 Jeremy Martin It's not doing, that's not, it wasn't enough. 24:49 Jeremy Martin And the problem was when I was going to the Bible college, I was, there were some awesome guys there, Mike Sisler and Ryan Smith. 24:55 Jeremy Martin And we would go out sometimes and feed the homeless and just have this great big spiritual rush and 25:02 Jeremy Martin But I didn't do that consistently. 25:04 Jeremy Martin And after a while, I just kind of started dropping off and I'd just go to church. 25:08 Jeremy Martin And then I'd play the bass in church. 25:10 Jeremy Martin hey, look, I'm serving. 25:11 Jeremy Martin And then just gradually drifted. 25:16 Jeremy Martin And to the point where I wasn't openly rebellious towards God, but I also wasn't actively seeking him with my whole heart. 25:25 Jeremy Martin And that's the difference. 25:26 Jeremy Martin I really 25:27 Jeremy Martin That is 100% the difference. 25:29 Jeremy Martin You got to actively seek God with your whole heart because when you do, he'll let you find him. 25:33 Sean Finnegan So you were in lukewarm? 25:36 Jeremy Martin I was in lukewarm land, yes. 25:38 Speaker 3 Okay. 25:39 Jeremy Martin Terrible, terrible to say it, but I was. 25:40 Sean Finnegan And is this when you moved to Tennessee or was that a little laughter? 25:45 Sean Finnegan How did that happen? 25:46 Sean Finnegan How did that come about? 25:48 Jeremy Martin I moved to Tennessee. 25:49 Jeremy Martin I was working with a company in Atlanta and 25:54 Jeremy Martin I got promoted into the corporate office, or as we called it, the ivory tower. 25:58 Jeremy Martin So I moved from Atlanta and we needed to get out of Atlanta because the school system there was really bad. 26:05 Jeremy Martin And when we took Jake to the first day of middle school, there was a riot going on the parking lot. 26:11 Jeremy Martin There was all kinds of cops there. 26:13 Jeremy Martin And we were just like, no, we're just going to homeschool. 26:16 Jeremy Martin And we called the principal and said, we are not taking our son here. 26:19 Jeremy Martin We're going to homeschool. 26:20 Jeremy Martin And it was within a year that we left. 26:24 Jeremy Martin God provided this out. 26:26 Jeremy Martin And of course, in retrospect, I see very clearly the times when God opened or shut doors in front of me to encourage me to walk in a certain direction. 26:36 Jeremy Martin But now it all became, it came about because of my work. 26:39 Jeremy Martin I got promoted with the company that I was with and I got promoted into a sales position inside the corporate office in Knoxville, Tennessee. 26:46 Sean Finnegan And did it concern you that you were? 26:48 Sean Finnegan moving away from a church that had the same beliefs or away from your parents who could help with the kids or was that just like not even a factor? 26:59 Jeremy Martin It was a factor, but it was a lesser factor than that we needed to get the kids into a better school system. 27:05 Sean Finnegan I see. 27:06 Jeremy Martin And also it was a significant pay raise for me at the same time. 27:09 Jeremy Martin Significant pay raise. 27:10 Speaker 3 Yeah. 27:11 Sean Finnegan So I think when I was down there, Clayton County, I don't know if that's the school district you guys were in, 27:18 Sean Finnegan But they had lost their accreditation. 27:21 Sean Finnegan So since graduating from high school, their diploma didn't have value. 27:28 Jeremy Martin Yeah, didn't count. 27:30 Sean Finnegan So it was a crazy time in that part of Georgia. 27:36 Jeremy Martin It was a crazy time. 27:37 Jeremy Martin And again, in retrospect, you can see God opening and shutting doors. 27:43 Jeremy Martin I didn't see it at the time because I was too caught up in the immediate drama of it all. 27:47 Jeremy Martin And one of the things I've learned significantly over time is we have very limited perceptions as humans. 27:54 Jeremy Martin We see where we're standing. 27:56 Sean Finnegan Just see like right in front of our face and that's it. 27:58 Jeremy Martin Right here we see and we see a little bit behind us and then it kind of fades off into obscurity. 28:03 Jeremy Martin We don't we don't see the big picture. 28:05 Jeremy Martin So a lot of times we lean into our own understanding pretty heavily and it's just dumb. 28:11 Jeremy Martin We just don't have the perception to understand. 28:15 Jeremy Martin So 28:16 Jeremy Martin trusting God is extremely critical. 28:21 Jeremy Martin Just whatever happens, it's like, hey, God's got this. 28:26 Sean Finnegan All right, so in the next chapter of your life, you're in the Knoxville, Tennessee area, and you're working. 28:40 Sean Finnegan Now you had already started back with smoking marijuana and drinking. 28:44 Sean Finnegan So I'm assuming that continued. 28:46 Sean Finnegan You also were into video games, right? 28:49 Jeremy Martin Yeah. 28:49 Jeremy Martin Oh, yes. 28:51 Jeremy Martin Let's throw that in there too. 28:52 Sean Finnegan I mean, if you're going to dopamine max, you know, you want to hit the trust. 28:55 Jeremy Martin Yeah, you might as well max it out. 28:56 Jeremy Martin You're right. 28:57 Jeremy Martin You're right. 28:58 Jeremy Martin No, we actually, I had a couple friends of mine, we 29:02 Jeremy Martin got together and we made what was probably the most successful video game of its type for decades. 29:08 Jeremy Martin It was Aerolith. 29:09 Jeremy Martin It was a module for Neverwinter Nights, the video game. 29:13 Jeremy Martin And that was an extreme time sink because it's like a whole little simulated world that you can do all the simulated things that you could actually be doing in real life for actual productive value, but instead you do it in a video game with a bunch of nerds who also are getting no productive value out of it. 29:32 Jeremy Martin But it was pretty popular at its time. 29:35 Jeremy Martin It was an extreme huge time sink. 29:38 Sean Finnegan Like what are we talking about per week as far as how many hours would you be investing in this? 29:44 Jeremy Martin Oh, I would work for 40 hours and then I would put at least 40 hours into the game also. 29:48 Jeremy Martin So I mean, sleep was at a premium. 29:51 Jeremy Martin It just didn't happen very often. 29:53 Jeremy Martin But we had like 30,000 unique users a month. 29:59 Jeremy Martin Not different characters on the game, different unique logins on the game. 30:04 Jeremy Martin So we were hopping pretty good. 30:08 Sean Finnegan And was that monetized? 30:12 Jeremy Martin Or was it more? 30:13 Sean Finnegan Just like a community you participated in. 30:17 Jeremy Martin Now see, there was a transition point where we could have monetized it, and in retrospect we should have because we'd be just rolling in buckets of money like Scrooge McDuck, but that's not that critical. 30:28 Jeremy Martin But no, we made the decision not to monetize it, but we accepted donations. 30:33 Jeremy Martin And even accepting donations, it still paid for all of our servers, all the bandwidth, a little bit extra for us to go have developmental meetings, which mainly consisted of going to hang out at the bar and drink a few beers and talking about what we should put in the game next. 30:52 Jeremy Martin But 30:54 Jeremy Martin No, we did make a little bit of money off it, but it was not monetized to the degree that it could have been. 31:01 Speaker 3 Okay. 31:02 Sean Finnegan So what else would characterize this period of your life where you were gaming a lot? 31:08 Sean Finnegan You were just, were you going to church anymore since you had moved away? 31:12 Sean Finnegan Like how would you describe your faith during this period? 31:17 Jeremy Martin Weak at best. 31:20 Jeremy Martin Honestly, the more distractions you put in front of your face, the more TV, the more video games, the more movies, the more just fantasy books and stuff like that. 31:29 Jeremy Martin I was doing a really good job about keeping myself occupied and not focusing on the important stuff. 31:35 Jeremy Martin I was distracting myself quite well. 31:40 Jeremy Martin I would say that this is probably one of the weakest points of my faith, which is 31:46 Jeremy Martin really disturbing considering all the lengths that God had gone to keep me alive and to put me in a certain place and to give me some certain knowledge and information and spirit. 31:56 Jeremy Martin So it was really just bad behavior on my part. 32:01 Jeremy Martin It was not being grateful at all. 32:04 Sean Finnegan And so this was something that went on, you were kind of like in this phase of life for years, right? 32:11 Sean Finnegan Like what are we talking about here? 32:13 Jeremy Martin Probably a decade or so. 32:15 Sean Finnegan Okay. 32:16 Jeremy Martin And just, I was making it. 32:19 Jeremy Martin This is when you're raising your. 32:20 Sean Finnegan Kids, your kids are becoming teenagers and they're moving out of the house, all this during that period. 32:27 Jeremy Martin Yes, And sadly, I was so focused on myself and my video game at the time and my career and all these other things that I really feel 32:39 Jeremy Martin in some ways that I failed as a father to instill in my children the level of importance that you need to associate with a good spiritual relationship with God. 32:50 Jeremy Martin And we've later circled back to that, but at the time, I think I missed an opportunity. 32:56 Speaker 3 Wow. 32:58 Sean Finnegan Okay, so what happened next? 33:02 Jeremy Martin Well, I went from the company that I was with to a different company. 33:06 Jeremy Martin I started making even better money. 33:09 Jeremy Martin We ended up buying some land up here. 33:12 Jeremy Martin We've got about 13 acres on a mountain. 33:14 Jeremy Martin And so, we were doing all right financially, but there's no, and we would go to a local church, kind of a big mega church, but there's none of the churches around here are, they're much more of a traditional belief. 33:33 Jeremy Martin We have a couple different types of churches. 33:35 Jeremy Martin We've got Baptists, 33:37 Jeremy Martin We've got Southern Baptists. 33:39 Jeremy Martin We've got Fundamental Baptists. 33:44 Jeremy Martin So pretty much anything you want, as long as it's in this very specific slice of the pie. 33:52 Jeremy Martin And I did go to a church, and there's a couple non-denominationals obviously, but. 33:57 Sean Finnegan Well, non-denominational churches are often just Baptist churches in disguise, right? 34:02 Sean Finnegan if you look at the schools that the pastor and the staff went to, they're all Baptist schools. 34:08 Sean Finnegan They just got rid of the Baptist name so that they could appeal to more people. 34:13 Jeremy Martin Yes. 34:15 Jeremy Martin And that's fine, but I did find that my understanding of a lot of things was different than a lot of their understandings. 34:22 Jeremy Martin But at the time, it didn't really bother me too bad because I was just going to check that box off, remember, because I'd distracted myself so well. 34:32 Sean Finnegan So if they talked about going to heaven or that Jesus is God, you don't believe those things, but you were just like, whatever, who cares? 34:42 Jeremy Martin Right. 34:42 Jeremy Martin I'm here. 34:42 Jeremy Martin I'm at church. 34:43 Jeremy Martin What's the big deal? 34:44 Jeremy Martin Yeah. 34:46 Jeremy Martin And sadly, I mean, there is a small group of the way that's out here. 34:53 Jeremy Martin And I've met with them a few times and they're great folks. 34:55 Jeremy Martin I love them a lot. 34:56 Jeremy Martin They're probably the closest to my beliefs that are out here. 35:00 Jeremy Martin But other than that, on Saturdays and Sundays, it's very, there's a very orthodox understanding, which is ironic, considering that it's predominantly Protestant, but it's a very orthodox Protestant, you know? 35:19 Speaker 3 Okay. 35:21 Speaker 3 So what happened next? 35:24 Jeremy Martin Well, COVID hit. 35:28 Jeremy Martin I think everybody remembers COVID. 35:32 Jeremy Martin Yeah, I was working at a company making very good money. 35:35 Jeremy Martin We were working at home for the year and they said, okay, everybody, it's time to come back to work. 35:42 Jeremy Martin And I just said, no, I don't think so. 35:43 Jeremy Martin All my stuff's been paid for and I'm good. 35:45 Jeremy Martin I don't think I want to work for you guys anymore. 35:48 Jeremy Martin So I turned in my notice and in order to, at the time I had been 35:55 Jeremy Martin I had moved from a casual pot smoker to extremely heavily smoking pot again. 36:01 Sean Finnegan What does that mean? 36:02 Sean Finnegan What does it mean to be a, like how many times a day are we talking? 36:06 Jeremy Martin Oh, like all day every day. 36:07 Sean Finnegan Oh. 36:08 Jeremy Martin All day like, wake up, do a couple bongs, go do a couple things and then within a couple hours go sit down and get myself back right and then just keep going through that like that through the whole day. 36:21 Jeremy Martin It was 36:22 Jeremy Martin Way too much. 36:23 Jeremy Martin It was not a casual user at all. 36:25 Sean Finnegan And this is like you were in your 50s at this point. 36:30 Jeremy Martin Yes, late 40s, early 50s. 36:35 Jeremy Martin So yeah, there's a, I was buying it by the ounce at a time, which I don't, if you've ever used pot, you know that's a pretty large amount. 36:47 Jeremy Martin And I'd refresh that about every week or two at the most. 36:52 Jeremy Martin So after a while, when they said, everybody, we're going to come back from COVID, I was like, no, thank you. 37:00 Jeremy Martin And I actually set up a grow room in the house and was growing my own crop. 37:06 Jeremy Martin And that was actually also supplementing my income because I didn't have a job anymore, but I didn't really need that much money because all my house had been paid for, my car's been paid for. 37:17 Jeremy Martin And so I just kind of 37:20 Jeremy Martin fell back into it. 37:22 Jeremy Martin the farther away you allow yourself to get from God, the stupider you get. 37:28 Sean Finnegan Well, what I'm hearing too is that sin has a 37:35 Sean Finnegan I'm just going to have some beers with my friends and then you're smoking pot all day in the house and you don't have a job. 37:44 Sean Finnegan like obviously that's a very, that's over many years, right? 37:49 Sean Finnegan But there is this growth and it's slow and you don't notice it. 37:55 Sean Finnegan When you look at like the bookends, you're like, wow, how did I get from here to there? 38:00 Jeremy Martin Yeah, no, that's 100% true. 38:02 Jeremy Martin It's 38:03 Jeremy Martin My dad always likes to say 1 degree off will change your destination. 38:08 Jeremy Martin If you look at the church. 38:10 Jeremy Martin Yeah, if you look at the church, if you go through 1700 years, if we're just one degree off, if you're traveling for 1700 miles and you're 1 degree off at the end of your destination, you'll be about 100 miles from where you wanted to be. 38:27 Jeremy Martin So if I was trying to get to New York City, I could be drowning in the ocean off to the right or 38:33 Jeremy Martin lost in the mountains of Albany or lost in the mountains or standing in Albany thinking I was in New York, but I wouldn't be because I'd be in Albany. 38:40 Jeremy Martin It's all, you're just not on base, you're off. 38:44 Jeremy Martin And that's exactly what happened to me. 38:48 Jeremy Martin And here's the kicker. 38:53 Jeremy Martin God never left, obviously. 38:57 Jeremy Martin God, God. 38:59 Jeremy Martin And he was always reaching out to me. 39:01 Jeremy Martin I think from the beginning of creation, God stood with his hands outstretched towards his return. 39:09 Jeremy Martin And I just wasn't listening. 39:10 Jeremy Martin So I was very good at distracting myself, very good at distracting myself. 39:14 Jeremy Martin So on Valentine's Day, 2, 14, 2022, I died. 39:26 Jeremy Martin I had a 39:29 Jeremy Martin I had a widowmaker heart attack. 39:32 Jeremy Martin I was sitting in my living room and I had some chest pains and I said, I was talking to my wife. 39:39 Jeremy Martin I said, I don't really feel good right now. 39:40 Jeremy Martin I think I might go to the clinic. 39:43 Jeremy Martin I said, no, first I said, I think I'm going to take a nap. 39:45 Jeremy Martin She's like, okay. 39:46 Jeremy Martin I laid down and I couldn't get comfortable. 39:48 Jeremy Martin So I said, you know what, I just don't feel right. 39:50 Jeremy Martin I might go to the clinic. 39:51 Jeremy Martin She said, okay. 39:53 Jeremy Martin So I started driving down towards the emergency clinic and I called my mom. 39:56 Jeremy Martin And I think right then my heart attack started happening in earnest. 40:00 Speaker 3 Oh wow. 40:00 Jeremy Martin Because it was just like that. 40:01 Sean Finnegan Well, your mom's a nurse, I should say that. 40:03 Sean Finnegan So she would have a lot of medical knowledge. 40:05 Jeremy Martin Yes, mom is the nurse. 40:07 Jeremy Martin So I was telling her, I said, mom, my chest is hurting really bad. 40:10 Jeremy Martin I think I'm going to go to the clinic. 40:12 Jeremy Martin And she said, do not go to the clinic. 40:14 Jeremy Martin Go to the emergency room. 40:15 Jeremy Martin They can't do anything at the clinic if you're having a heart attack. 40:19 Jeremy Martin So I went to the emergency room and I kind of 40:21 Jeremy Martin cut in front of a young lady and put my hand on the counter and said, excuse me, I think I'm having a heart attack. 40:27 Jeremy Martin She said, well, do you have your identification? 40:30 Jeremy Martin And I had left it in the car, which was parked in the back 40 of the parking lot. 40:33 Jeremy Martin I had to stagger through the parking lot, clutching my chest to get there. 40:37 Jeremy Martin And I said, well, it's in my car and I honestly don't think I can make it back there. 40:43 Jeremy Martin I think I'm about to die. 40:44 Jeremy Martin And she said, well, okay, what's your name? 40:46 Jeremy Martin Just so we can bill you later and let's get you in this room. 40:50 Jeremy Martin And 40:51 Jeremy Martin lady put a bunch of electrodes on me, the EKG stuff. 40:54 Jeremy Martin And she said, okay, how you doing? 40:57 Jeremy Martin You doing all right? 40:57 Jeremy Martin And she's looking at the readings and she's like, okay. 40:59 Jeremy Martin And she just casually sidled over to the phone and whispered into the phone a little bit. 41:05 Jeremy Martin And the next thing I know, there's about 14 guys with the gurney and they've got me strapped to the gurney and they're force feeding me baby aspirin and running me to the back. 41:15 Jeremy Martin And they put me immediately on a table. 41:16 Jeremy Martin The doctor's there, Dr. 41:17 Jeremy Martin Neil Berry, you can check with him. 41:18 Jeremy Martin He's a super guy. 41:20 Jeremy Martin He's a local cardiologist here in Knoxville. 41:24 Jeremy Martin And he said, well, you're having an event. 41:28 Jeremy Martin You might want to call your wife. 41:31 Jeremy Martin And she didn't think it was a big deal at the time. 41:34 Jeremy Martin I didn't really think it was a big deal at the time, even though I was like literally dying. 41:38 Jeremy Martin So I'm laying on this table and I'm looking up at this giant TV screen that has my innards x-rayed on it and I can see them 41:47 Jeremy Martin They're fishing a stent up through my chest. 41:52 Jeremy Martin They went in through my upper right thigh and the femoral armory and they fished it all the way around to the top of my heart where the widow maker is. 41:58 Jeremy Martin That's the type of heart attack I had. 42:01 Jeremy Martin And I had 100% blockage in the widow maker. 42:03 Jeremy Martin And so I can see this little thing fishing around and going towards my beating heart, you know, in the X-ray thing or whatever it is that they're using. 42:13 Jeremy Martin Very cool technology, by the way. 42:15 Jeremy Martin And I hear them say, 42:17 Jeremy Martin push the fentanyl. 42:19 Jeremy Martin And then I was out. 42:21 Jeremy Martin And I woke up and there's about 16 people standing around me, very concerned looking, very worried looking on their faces. 42:31 Jeremy Martin And there's a lady with the paddles with her eyes about as big as saucer standing in front of me. 42:36 Jeremy Martin And a doctor said, are you all right? 42:38 Jeremy Martin And I said, yeah, are you all right? 42:42 Jeremy Martin sir, you're a very lucky man. 42:44 Jeremy Martin You died. 42:44 Jeremy Martin You were dead on the table for about 5 1/2 minutes. 42:46 Sean Finnegan What? 42:48 Jeremy Martin Yeah, I was dead on the table for about 5 1/2 minutes. 42:51 Jeremy Martin And in retrospect, that's what I would call a light tap on the shoulder from God saying, son. 42:58 Sean Finnegan It's time to make a change. 43:01 Jeremy Martin Right. 43:02 Jeremy Martin So what I did instead? 43:03 Sean Finnegan Five and a half minutes. 43:06 Sean Finnegan I guess I was under the impression that like after a couple minutes, you can't even bring somebody back. 43:12 Jeremy Martin That's apparently not the case. 43:15 Jeremy Martin It's documented. 43:16 Jeremy Martin Neil Berry has all the stuff. 43:18 Jeremy Martin I've got the paperwork somewhere, but no, I was dead for about 5 1/2 minutes. 43:24 Jeremy Martin And he said, you're a very lucky young man. 43:25 Jeremy Martin In fact, it's been great. 43:27 Jeremy Martin Later, I actually went to his office and talked to him and his staff. 43:32 Jeremy Martin And he's like, man, you're my miracle baby. 43:35 Jeremy Martin What, you know, what's the difference? 43:37 Jeremy Martin What's the change? 43:38 Jeremy Martin And I got the opportunity to testify to him at that time. 43:42 Jeremy Martin about what God had done for me and why. 43:44 Speaker 3 Wow. 43:46 Jeremy Martin But the thing, the really messed up thing, Sean, is when I got back up from the bed, I got back up and immediately kept being stupid. 43:55 Jeremy Martin I, mean, I had probably a $6,000 to $10,000 crop grown in my back room. 44:01 Jeremy Martin I came home. 44:02 Jeremy Martin I was home within about two days and sitting on my couch doing a bong. 44:06 Jeremy Martin Just absolutely probably. 44:08 Sean Finnegan What were you thinking to yourself? 44:11 Sean Finnegan Were you thinking, 44:13 Sean Finnegan I really need to change or you're thinking, well, I guess that's over now. 44:16 Sean Finnegan I just go back to life as usual or what? 44:19 Jeremy Martin That's exactly what I thought. 44:20 Jeremy Martin I thought, well, that was close. 44:22 Jeremy Martin Cool. 44:23 Jeremy Martin Let's get back to it. 44:24 Jeremy Martin And just, you know, sit. 44:27 Sean Finnegan Do you think you were trying to escape something with all that marijuana? 44:30 Sean Finnegan Like what were you trying to escape you think? 44:32 Sean Finnegan Because like you're just not thinking introspectively when you're when you're high, right? 44:39 Jeremy Martin Maybe you are. 44:39 Jeremy Martin I don't know. 44:41 Jeremy Martin Anything that distracts you from focusing on devoting yourself to and serving God, anything is a distraction. 44:49 Jeremy Martin And for me, it was pot. 44:52 Jeremy Martin Pot became my idol. 44:54 Jeremy Martin Some people it's booze. 44:56 Jeremy Martin Some people it's alcohol. 44:57 Jeremy Martin Some people use cocaine or heroin or other things. 45:00 Jeremy Martin Some people just use TV. 45:02 Jeremy Martin Some people escape through TV or video games or movies or just fantasy realism. 45:08 Jeremy Martin Anything that distracts you from God can do the same thing that happened to me. 45:13 Jeremy Martin It can just pull you away into stupid land. 45:15 Sean Finnegan Yeah. 45:16 Sean Finnegan I wonder, what was it about reality that was just like, so that you so needed to escape? 45:23 Jeremy Martin You know, I don't know. 45:25 Jeremy Martin That's a great introspective question. 45:28 Jeremy Martin I couldn't tell you. 45:29 Jeremy Martin know, I had everything. 45:31 Jeremy Martin I had everything. 45:32 Jeremy Martin I had. 45:32 Jeremy Martin You did. 45:33 Sean Finnegan I mean, you had the job, you had the house. 45:35 Sean Finnegan I mean, you even built your own house, right? 45:38 Jeremy Martin We did. 45:39 Jeremy Martin We did. 45:39 Jeremy Martin I'll send you a picture of it. 45:40 Jeremy Martin It's a very nice little house. 45:41 Sean Finnegan The kids were healthy and out of the house. 45:49 Jeremy Martin Yeah. 45:50 Jeremy Martin I honestly. 45:50 Sean Finnegan You had the American dream. 45:52 Jeremy Martin Yeah. 45:53 Jeremy Martin And just like most of the Americans who are living the dream, I was just an ungrateful little little prig, you know, just I narcissistic and ungrateful. 46:04 Jeremy Martin All about me. 46:05 Jeremy Martin It's all about me, you know, and it's really not. 46:10 Jeremy Martin my goodness. 46:10 Jeremy Martin After you died for two more years. 46:14 Sean Finnegan After you died for two more years. 46:18 Sean Finnegan Business as usual. 46:20 Jeremy Martin Business as usual, right? 46:22 Sean Finnegan So you are what we might call a slow processor. 46:26 Jeremy Martin Take you a little while to. 46:28 Sean Finnegan Kind of think through. 46:29 Sean Finnegan Okay, well. 46:30 Jeremy Martin Only if you were being extremely benevolent would you call me a slow processor. 46:36 Jeremy Martin But in honestly, 46:39 Jeremy Martin You got to keep in mind, because of my background, I view myself through a certain lens. 46:49 Jeremy Martin And it was not a very flattering lens, because I remember with great clarity some of the horrible things that I've done. 47:00 Jeremy Martin So when I died, I'm just like, what are you going to do? 47:05 Jeremy Martin Got back up and kept being stupid. 47:09 Jeremy Martin Then 2 years later, my dad went blind. 47:19 Jeremy Martin And dad has always been just like this super faithful, super righteous guy, always toeing the line, never backing down, staunch defender of his faith, just an amazing guy. 47:35 Jeremy Martin We had a family call and we usually don't have family calls unless there's some serious stuff going down. 47:42 Jeremy Martin So we had a family call and he said, Jeremy, Jenny, I went blind. 47:48 Jeremy Martin And they're like, what are you talking about, dad? 47:51 Jeremy Martin That's crazy talk. 47:52 Jeremy Martin And he's like, no, I went blind and I can't see. 47:57 Jeremy Martin And he's like, and Jeremy, I'm calling you because I had this weird vision after I went blind. 48:04 Jeremy Martin I'm like, okay. 48:05 Jeremy Martin And I've, keep in mind, I still believed in God, kind of like over here. 48:10 Jeremy Martin Didn't think that any God would want anything to do with me because I'm such a terrible human being, even though he saved me repeatedly. 48:18 Jeremy Martin But this is dad and dad is a whole nother slice of cake. 48:22 Jeremy Martin You know, he's a whole different thing. 48:23 Sean Finnegan Well, he's very committed. 48:24 Sean Finnegan I mean, both your parents have spent, really poured out their lives to serve God and his people for decade after decade. 48:33 Sean Finnegan I mean, how much more could, especially your dad have made working in construction or in business? 48:40 Jeremy Martin Or something than anything, anything. 48:43 Sean Finnegan Instead, he just poured himself out, getting paid almost nothing. 48:47 Sean Finnegan Travel all over Africa. 48:48 Sean Finnegan What's that? 48:50 Jeremy Martin Yeah, he's been to, they've been to Africa for like 30 years. 48:52 Jeremy Martin Everything they do get paid, they funnel over to the churches in Africa. 48:55 Jeremy Martin I don't want to toot their horn too heavily, but they're good people. 49:00 Jeremy Martin They're really good people. 49:02 Jeremy Martin And I knew this and I always kind of held my dad kind of a little bit on a pedestal because of this. 49:08 Jeremy Martin I know his spirit. 49:09 Jeremy Martin So I know I have a lot of respect and love for him. 49:14 Jeremy Martin And so when he went blind, it just, it hit me harder than my own death did. 49:19 Jeremy Martin That's incredible. 49:20 Jeremy Martin To cut it short. 49:22 Sean Finnegan So what was the vision he said he had? 49:25 Jeremy Martin Oh, well, that's interesting. 49:26 Jeremy Martin First off, I guess I should explain, I have terrible handwriting. 49:30 Jeremy Martin He had me as a student in college, so he knew exactly how bad my handwriting was. 49:35 Jeremy Martin All the kids would joke that I was practicing to be a doctor because of my chicken scratch sprawl. 49:40 Jeremy Martin And he said, I was laying in bed and I couldn't, I'm blind, I can't see anything. 49:45 Jeremy Martin And I saw a light on the wall and I saw a hand come out and was writing on the wall. 49:52 Jeremy Martin I said, okay, meany, meany, Tiko, you farson? 49:55 Jeremy Martin I mean, what are we talking here? 49:56 Jeremy Martin And he said, no. 49:58 Jeremy Martin It was in your handwriting though. 50:00 Jeremy Martin I knew it was your handwriting because I had to focus on it for a second to read it because it was so terrible. 50:08 Jeremy Martin And he said the vision that he saw the writing was the kingdom is ready, gather them in, gather them in. 50:16 Jeremy Martin It's like it was really weird that it was in your handwriting. 50:20 Jeremy Martin And so this is about a 30 minute phone conversation, you know, with the whole family. 50:26 Jeremy Martin And 50:27 Jeremy Martin It's like a gut punch. 50:29 Jeremy Martin It's like a gut punch. 50:32 Jeremy Martin Worse than, I mean, 1000 times worse for me emotionally than when I died. 50:38 Jeremy Martin So, because I mean, keep in mind, I was just, I was a bad kid, but dad was always good. 50:46 Jeremy Martin He was one of the good guys. 50:48 Jeremy Martin So I got on my knees. 50:51 Jeremy Martin I started praying. 50:56 Jeremy Martin I started fasting and I did a hard fast, like nothing, no water, no nothing. 51:02 Jeremy Martin And I did that for a few days and about, I think it was about day three. 51:06 Jeremy Martin And I'm praying just gut level, broken heart on my hands, knees and face in the dirt, praying to God to heal my dad. 51:17 Jeremy Martin And about day three, I realized, and I'm also starting to read my Bible again, looking for answers. 51:25 Jeremy Martin because this isn't competing with me because this is a faithful servant, So about day three, I realized into my fast, I realized, hey, God's not going to listen to the prayers of an unrighteous man. 51:39 Jeremy Martin I'm thinking in my head when I started, when I first got down on my face and started praying to God, I think, well, I just got to pray for dad till he's healed and I can, you know, just go back to my normal lifestyle and do this. 51:52 Jeremy Martin And I realized, hey, God's not going to listen to the prayers of an unrighteous man. 51:56 Sean Finnegan And you knew you were living unrighteously at that time. 51:59 Jeremy Martin I knew that I was living unrighteously at that time. 52:01 Jeremy Martin So I went into my grow room. 52:04 Jeremy Martin I pulled out all my plants. 52:07 Jeremy Martin I took them out to the fire pit and I poured diesel on them and sacrificed them in an altar before the Lord. 52:13 Sean Finnegan And how much money would that be worth if you sold it? 52:17 Jeremy Martin Oh, it's probably 6 to 12 grand worth of 52:22 Jeremy Martin product. 52:23 Jeremy Martin They were all about to bud and they were about 6 feet high already. 52:27 Jeremy Martin they were already budding. 52:29 Jeremy Martin So it was probably going to be a very good crop, but I burned it all in a fact. 52:34 Jeremy Martin That's just money stuff. 52:35 Jeremy Martin Money's irrelevant. 52:37 Jeremy Martin So I burned it all up. 52:39 Jeremy Martin I started focusing on obeying God and listening to God, 100% seeking God with my whole heart, praying, fasting, 52:52 Jeremy Martin trying to do all the things that I could do to intercede with God on dad's behalf. 53:00 Jeremy Martin And stuff started to get weird because I was praying to God and then I started seeing things. 53:12 Jeremy Martin I started witnessing miracles. 53:13 Jeremy Martin I started having dreams. 53:15 Jeremy Martin It was just weird. 53:16 Jeremy Martin I don't want to get too deep into it, but I will say 53:19 Jeremy Martin if you seek God with your whole heart, he'll let you find him. 53:24 Sean Finnegan Must have been such an incredible time because I think really, I used the term dopamine maxing before, which is a term my kids use to talk about, when you're doing multiple things at the same time to just basically experience pleasure. 53:41 Sean Finnegan And you were so optimized for, 53:48 Sean Finnegan you have the video games, you have the marijuana, other things I'm sure we could add into that, like sugars, dessert, other TV, books. 54:02 Jeremy Martin Food, foodstuffs, everything that I could use to destroy. 54:04 Sean Finnegan Right, so like you had really become proficient at maximizing the pleasure you experience on a daily basis. 54:12 Sean Finnegan And now you're doing the exact opposite. 54:16 Sean Finnegan You're cutting out all food, you're cutting out the marijuana, you're cutting out the drinking, and you're even cut out water for a few days, you know, so you are, you're just like a pendulum that has swung completely the other way. 54:28 Sean Finnegan I'm just saying like physiologically, you know, your body must have been dying in the sense of like withdrawal during that period. 54:38 Sean Finnegan Must have been really hard. 54:42 Jeremy Martin If it was, I didn't notice it because I was so focused and intent. 54:46 Sean Finnegan That's incredible. 54:47 Sean Finnegan That's incredible. 54:50 Jeremy Martin So this has been, my dad's been blind now for about two years, just a little over 2 years. 54:55 Jeremy Martin And it's been a very weird journey. 54:58 Jeremy Martin For the longest time, I cut out every external source that was distracting me. 55:06 Jeremy Martin Like I didn't watch TV for over a year and a half. 55:09 Jeremy Martin In fact, 55:10 Jeremy Martin I have to say thank you because your podcast helped me to get some form of external entertainment that was also edifying. 55:22 Jeremy Martin I think I've listened to every one of your podcasts. 55:24 Jeremy Martin I went through all your stuff. 55:26 Sean Finnegan That's over 600 episodes at this point. 55:28 Sean Finnegan So congratulations on that. 55:32 Jeremy Martin Which lets you know how much TV I wasn't watching at the time, you know. 55:38 Jeremy Martin But no, it was extremely beneficial. 55:41 Jeremy Martin I was on a hard fast for a couple weeks and I started drinking water after I think about the 4th day, but I was still on a hard fast for at least a couple weeks, maybe longer. 55:55 Jeremy Martin I don't know. 55:56 Jeremy Martin It's not a big deal. 55:58 Jeremy Martin And then when I was coming off that, I said, you know what? 56:02 Jeremy Martin I'm until dad's healed, I'm just going to I'm going to do the Daniel fast. 56:08 Jeremy Martin So I talked to dad and I said, hey, look, I'm going to do this until you're healed. 56:13 Jeremy Martin You think that's okay? 56:14 Jeremy Martin He's like, you're doing it for the right reason, son. 56:16 Jeremy Martin You're not trying to seek aggrandizement for yourself or anything. 56:20 Jeremy Martin So it's like, yeah. 56:21 Jeremy Martin So explain that a little bit. 56:24 Sean Finnegan What does that mean you're not eating or you are? 56:29 Jeremy Martin I don't drink. 56:32 Jeremy Martin Well, let me back up. 56:34 Jeremy Martin I don't eat any kind of meat right now. 56:35 Jeremy Martin I eat fish. 56:37 Jeremy Martin I'm A pescatarian, I guess, technically. 56:39 Jeremy Martin But I haven't eaten meat in over 2 years. 56:42 Jeremy Martin And it's clearly not affected me too negatively because I still am quite a hefty young lad. 56:51 Jeremy Martin But I haven't had a drop of alcohol. 56:58 Jeremy Martin I cut out alcohol like cold turkey. 57:01 Jeremy Martin I haven't, you know, smoking obviously is out. 57:04 Jeremy Martin It's all that stuff is done with. 57:07 Jeremy Martin And I just, I just, when I came off the fast, it was easier to go to transition into a Daniel fast where he just didn't eat the king's meat and stuff like that, or drink the king's wine. 57:21 Jeremy Martin It was easier than that, easier to go into a Daniel fast than it was for me to just go like, oh, let's just go back and eat a steak, you know? 57:28 Jeremy Martin So 57:29 Jeremy Martin So I don't think this is necessary for salvation and I'm not saying you should all limit your intake to vegetables only because, but this is a deal that I made with God and I'm sticking to it. 57:42 Speaker 3 Yeah. 57:43 Sean Finnegan So during this last two years, 57:47 Sean Finnegan What are other things that you have been doing? 57:49 Sean Finnegan Like you've talked a lot about what you aren't doing anymore. 57:52 Sean Finnegan You're not eating meat, you're not smoking weed, you're not drinking. 57:56 Sean Finnegan Okay, so what are you doing? 57:57 Sean Finnegan Like, did you go back to work? 58:00 Jeremy Martin How do you fill your time? 58:03 Jeremy Martin That's actually a great question. 58:05 Jeremy Martin Initially, because I had semi-retired, you know, basically quit. 58:12 Jeremy Martin And initially I would just read scripture and pray. 58:15 Jeremy Martin I actually 58:16 Jeremy Martin I think it's very critical if you're not going to get, you're going to have habits one way or the other. 58:23 Jeremy Martin So I think it's very critical to establish holy habits within yourself. 58:28 Jeremy Martin So I set my alarm on my phone just three times a day. 58:33 Jeremy Martin When I wake up, I get on my face. 58:34 Jeremy Martin I don't just say, oh God, thanks for the food. 58:37 Jeremy Martin I get on my hands and knees and put my face in the dirt and talk to God. 58:41 Jeremy Martin Gut level, hey, this is what's going on. 58:44 Jeremy Martin Thank you so much for this. 58:46 Jeremy Martin What can I do for you today? 58:49 Jeremy Martin And I set my alarm on my phone three times a day. 58:52 Jeremy Martin I do that morning, noon, evening. 58:55 Jeremy Martin And that's just, it's not the ritual that is important. 59:00 Jeremy Martin It's establishing the habit of holiness. 59:05 Jeremy Martin I try to, I've since come up with a saying, I said, if you're looking for Jesus, he's probably in a Walmart parking lot and he's probably hungry. 59:16 Jeremy Martin go buy the guy a hamburger. 59:19 Jeremy Martin I've tried to fill my time up with doing good deeds. 59:24 Jeremy Martin And that's not because good deeds is what gets you there, but that's because as a Christian, when God saved you, he saved you so that you could do these good deeds that he's prepared in advance for you to do. 59:36 Jeremy Martin So I've been trying to do that. 59:39 Jeremy Martin I did re-enter the work field, but I thought, you know, money's great. 59:45 Jeremy Martin But that's not where my focus is. 59:46 Jeremy Martin So for a year, I worked as a caretaker for a quadriplegic fellow, super nice guy. 59:53 Jeremy Martin And that's very humbling in and of itself, I can tell you. 59:58 Jeremy Martin And then after that, I started working at the local elementary school with kindergarten kids with the special needs. 1:00:07 Jeremy Martin I worked with a special ed kid. 1:00:09 Jeremy Martin And that's a hoot. 1:00:11 Jeremy Martin And that keeps you young and fit and active. 1:00:15 Jeremy Martin And also humble because look, God has given us so much that we just take for granted. 1:00:23 Sean Finnegan And I'm sure with those kids, they're not shy about saying their opinion. 1:00:31 Sean Finnegan I mean, kids in general just like blurt out whatever they think, but especially if you have special needs, like there's no filter at all. 1:00:37 Jeremy Martin Absolutely no filter. 1:00:38 Jeremy Martin No, the guys that can talk have no filter. 1:00:42 Jeremy Martin No, and I've really enjoyed it and I love the kids. 1:00:45 Jeremy Martin It's been very enjoyable, but if I can help widows or orphans, if I can help a homeless guy, if I can stop and give the guy a ride, I actively seek daily what I can do to honor God because God has been so good to me. 1:01:05 Jeremy Martin And my dad is still blind, but you know what? 1:01:08 Jeremy Martin There's been 1:01:09 Jeremy Martin there's been doors opened because of that affliction that would normally not have been opened. 1:01:15 Jeremy Martin And I know that God is working through these things and he's serving his own purpose and whatever it will be, will be to the good of those who love him. 1:01:22 Sean Finnegan Yeah, So would you say that God really wanted to activate you in doing what you're doing now? 1:01:34 Sean Finnegan Because, you know, like I don't want to say God gave you a heart attack 1:01:40 Sean Finnegan Not that he couldn't, but that just seems like probably the consequence of your lifestyle, right? 1:01:47 Sean Finnegan But this, and I don't want to accuse God of causing Dr. 1:01:53 Sean Finnegan Joe to go blind, right? 1:01:56 Sean Finnegan Because, that's probably, genetic or whatever, because he was already blind in the other eye. 1:02:03 Sean Finnegan And your mom was deaf in one ear. 1:02:05 Sean Finnegan And the joke was that, between the two of them, they got, they could see a ear. 1:02:12 Sean Finnegan But so I guess my question is like, as you kind of reflect while we're having this conversation on like, what it is God wants from you, like how do you put it all together? 1:02:26 Jeremy Martin I think it's very, I, it's a very simple thing for me. 1:02:32 Jeremy Martin And it's not just for me, this is for all of us. 1:02:34 Jeremy Martin And I think it's especially poignant because I was such a bad kid that it's very meaningful for me that God, the creator and ruler of all things, took the time out to personally pull me back. 1:02:54 Jeremy Martin I really think that just from the beginning of 1:02:58 Jeremy Martin That's so huge. 1:03:00 Sean Finnegan He would care enough to act and to. 1:03:04 Sean Finnegan It makes me cry when I think about it. 1:03:08 Jeremy Martin And particularly because I was just such a bad guy. 1:03:11 Jeremy Martin I was not a good kid at all. 1:03:14 Jeremy Martin And yet he's still, I think from the beginning of creation, he has stood just outside of the garden with his hands outstretched towards his creation going, guys, come on, I love you. 1:03:27 Jeremy Martin I created you for a purpose. 1:03:28 Jeremy Martin Come on back home. 1:03:30 Jeremy Martin And I think that's when I stand and look back along the whole path of my journey, the thing that stands out to me besides my own stupidity, which is pretty prominent, the thing that stands out to me is that God, in spite of everything, has been faithful, loving, and just waiting, calling me back the whole time. 1:03:55 Jeremy Martin And I 1:03:57 Jeremy Martin It's humbling. 1:04:01 Jeremy Martin A lot of people don't realize how humbling that should be, that the creator, ruler, and master of everything knows your name. 1:04:10 Speaker 3 Wow, yeah. 1:04:17 Sean Finnegan What was the response of your wife and your kids when you went into like profit mode 1:04:26 Sean Finnegan like, man, what's Jeremy into now? 1:04:30 Sean Finnegan I'm sure this will pass. 1:04:31 Sean Finnegan Or what were they saying? 1:04:32 Sean Finnegan Do you know what they thought? 1:04:35 Jeremy Martin Yes, I actually have no misunderstanding because it became a point of contention initially with my wife. 1:04:44 Sean Finnegan I would think so. 1:04:45 Sean Finnegan I mean, this is a drastic change. 1:04:48 Jeremy Martin Immediate drastic change. 1:04:49 Jeremy Martin And I just said, look, this is what's going on. 1:04:52 Jeremy Martin This is why. 1:04:53 Jeremy Martin I have failed in these manners. 1:04:57 Jeremy Martin This is what I'm doing. 1:04:58 Jeremy Martin And she's like, okay. 1:05:00 Jeremy Martin And she's been behind me 100%. 1:05:02 Jeremy Martin She's like, you understand if we can be on the same journey, but in different places along the path. 1:05:10 Jeremy Martin And I said, I am neither a master of the law nor a teacher of the law. 1:05:15 Jeremy Martin I am a bad kid who God has redeemed. 1:05:18 Jeremy Martin I'm in no position to cast stones. 1:05:20 Jeremy Martin I live in a glass house. 1:05:22 Jeremy Martin There's no way that I can be judgmental about anybody else because God in his infinite mercy has chosen to save me, does not make me better than anybody else. 1:05:32 Jeremy Martin So this has no offense, but this has nothing to do with you unless you want to come along with me. 1:05:38 Jeremy Martin And she's been very supportive. 1:05:41 Jeremy Martin And I've. 1:05:43 Sean Finnegan Now, does she still eat meat and do the other stuff or is she? 1:05:47 Sean Finnegan Okay, so you're kind of just on your own in this restriction. 1:05:52 Sean Finnegan Okay. 1:05:54 Jeremy Martin Yeah, and that's fine. 1:05:55 Jeremy Martin This is, again, this does not equate to righteousness. 1:06:01 Jeremy Martin Anything that I do does not equate to righteousness. 1:06:03 Jeremy Martin Anything that I do, hopefully, is symptomatic of my faith, belief, and trust. 1:06:11 Jeremy Martin and the love of the God who made me. 1:06:13 Jeremy Martin And nothing that I do is in and of itself to be counted as righteousness. 1:06:17 Jeremy Martin This is just, we're all little blind cave fish, women in the dark, trying to find God. 1:06:22 Jeremy Martin And I'm doing the best that I can, just like you're doing the best that you can. 1:06:27 Jeremy Martin Yeah. 1:06:27 Jeremy Martin What about the kids? 1:06:31 Jeremy Martin The kids, they don't really live with us anymore. 1:06:33 Jeremy Martin So it's not as impactful to them as it was my wife. 1:06:37 Jeremy Martin But both the kids have been very supportive. 1:06:39 Jeremy Martin Josh and Jacob just been like, hey, I respect that. 1:06:42 Jeremy Martin Jacob has actually reached out and asked for guidance in Bible studies. 1:06:49 Jeremy Martin So it's, I think, I don't honestly see a downside to it. 1:06:58 Sean Finnegan What's next for you? 1:07:00 Speaker 3 Do you know? 1:07:01 Jeremy Martin Oh, no, I don't know, but I've never known. 1:07:04 Jeremy Martin The difference is I'm not trying to plan it either. 1:07:06 Jeremy Martin I'm just kind of, I'm trying to be faithful. 1:07:09 Jeremy Martin I'm trying to be obedient. 1:07:12 Jeremy Martin I'm trying to keep my heart focused on the right things and not be distracted because it's just down here. 1:07:17 Jeremy Martin It's so easy to get distracted. 1:07:20 Jeremy Martin So I'm doing everything that I can to focus on doing the right things at the right times and in the right mindset. 1:07:30 Jeremy Martin And I've noticed 1:07:34 Jeremy Martin Without getting too deep into some of the crazy miracles that I've seen and not like, oh, that's a miracle that you made it. 1:07:39 Jeremy Martin No, I'm talking about, oh, like the Dead Sea parted and we all walk through type miracles. 1:07:43 Jeremy Martin I've seen some crazy, crazy stuff, man, since I've 100% focused. 1:07:51 Jeremy Martin I don't know what's next, but it doesn't matter because I'm not the head, I'm the tail. 1:07:57 Jeremy Martin You know what I mean? 1:07:58 Sean Finnegan Well, it seems like you're very, your life is about serving now. 1:08:03 Sean Finnegan And before it was about serving yourself and about kind of like crafting a daily experience that just maximized pleasure. 1:08:14 Sean Finnegan Whereas now it's like, okay, well, I want to please God and I want to serve the least of these. 1:08:20 Sean Finnegan So special needs kids in an elementary school, down and outers in a Walmart parking lot, you know, those are my people. 1:08:30 Sean Finnegan That's where you want to spend your time. 1:08:32 Sean Finnegan serving. 1:08:33 Sean Finnegan So it seems like that already is your purpose. 1:08:38 Sean Finnegan you found your purpose. 1:08:41 Sean Finnegan And what's incredible is that you can do it with joy and you can do it with a sense of gratitude rather than trying to earn God's favor or validate yourself. 1:08:54 Sean Finnegan You've already been saved and now you're just responding back to that with 1:09:01 Sean Finnegan with acts of gratitude. 1:09:02 Sean Finnegan Would you say that that's the way you look at it or how would you say it? 1:09:06 Jeremy Martin Very accurate summary. 1:09:09 Jeremy Martin And here's the thing. 1:09:11 Jeremy Martin Nothing scares me. 1:09:13 Jeremy Martin I've already died. 1:09:14 Jeremy Martin You can't, I mean, you want to kill me again? 1:09:17 Jeremy Martin Knock yourself out. 1:09:18 Jeremy Martin I've already been dead. 1:09:20 Jeremy Martin I've been there. 1:09:22 Jeremy Martin There's nothing that scares me. 1:09:23 Jeremy Martin So I'm essentially fearless. 1:09:25 Jeremy Martin And that does cause some contention with my wife because I'll stop and give anybody a ride. 1:09:30 Jeremy Martin Hey buddy, you need a ride? 1:09:31 Jeremy Martin Hop in. 1:09:32 Jeremy Martin Let's go. 1:09:33 Jeremy Martin She's like, you don't even know that guy. 1:09:34 Jeremy Martin You're going to, he's going to murder you. 1:09:37 Jeremy Martin No, he won't. 1:09:39 Jeremy Martin And if he does, cool. 1:09:40 Jeremy Martin I've already been dead. 1:09:41 Jeremy Martin It doesn't scare me. 1:09:42 Sean Finnegan Yeah, that is funny. 1:09:48 Sean Finnegan It's almost like you have been kind of crafted 1:09:51 Sean Finnegan as a tool of God to reach people that other people wouldn't be willing to reach or that they would be intimidated by. 1:10:01 Sean Finnegan I mean, considering like your incredible life of, as you put it, depravity and crime early on, but then also later, like you've just seen a lot. 1:10:15 Sean Finnegan You've tasted, you've drunk from the cup of sin. 1:10:19 Sean Finnegan down to the dregs. 1:10:20 Sean Finnegan You know what every last gulp tastes like, right? 1:10:25 Sean Finnegan So that in a sense that qualifies you to speak to somebody that's a drug addict. 1:10:30 Sean Finnegan That qualifies you to speak to somebody who is in crime or whatever, because you could say, look, I've been there. 1:10:37 Sean Finnegan I know what you're going through. 1:10:39 Sean Finnegan Do you find that you can like relate to people better and therefore be more effective? 1:10:44 Jeremy Martin Absolutely. 1:10:45 Jeremy Martin It's kind of weird because I'm the guy that can walk into any environment and be totally comfortable. 1:10:52 Jeremy Martin I can go into a homeless camp outside of Walmart and just start talking to the guys. 1:10:57 Jeremy Martin I go into my doctor's office, the doctor who put the stent in my heart and brought me back from the dead, you know, with God's help. 1:11:05 Jeremy Martin And he's actually a very spiritual guy too. 1:11:08 Jeremy Martin We've had a great conversation with him and his office staff. 1:11:13 Jeremy Martin I'm the guy that can 1:11:14 Jeremy Martin Sit down and order food and the waitress will be like, how's your day? 1:11:17 Jeremy Martin Let me tell you, honey, my day is fantastic. 1:11:19 Jeremy Martin You know why? 1:11:21 Jeremy Martin And sit there and have a 20 minute conversation with her. 1:11:24 Jeremy Martin I'm not scared of any environment just because of some of the stuff that I've been through. 1:11:29 Jeremy Martin And I'm just grateful. 1:11:34 Jeremy Martin I'm grateful that I'm alive. 1:11:35 Jeremy Martin I'm hugely humbled by the favor, the unwarranted favor that God has shown me and my family. 1:11:44 Jeremy Martin And I'm just, nothing that I can ever do will be enough to repay that. 1:11:51 Jeremy Martin Nothing that I can ever do. 1:11:52 Jeremy Martin But I'm going to try. 1:11:54 Sean Finnegan Would you say that you would you say that you're an evangelist? 1:12:02 Sean Finnegan I would say you have the gift of evangelism or I don't know how you would say that, but what do you? 1:12:07 Jeremy Martin I would say that every living being who is purporting to be saved is an evangelist. 1:12:13 Jeremy Martin or should be. 1:12:16 Jeremy Martin So yes. 1:12:18 Jeremy Martin Now, will I ever accept money for that? 1:12:20 Jeremy Martin No. 1:12:22 Jeremy Martin You give that to people who need it. 1:12:23 Jeremy Martin I'm fine. 1:12:26 Jeremy Martin But I think we're all called to be not only, I think more of an evangelist, I think I'm a witness. 1:12:34 Jeremy Martin Let me tell you what happened to me. 1:12:36 Jeremy Martin You can express that and digest it in your own life terms. 1:12:42 Jeremy Martin and get the nuggets that you want for nutrition out of it. 1:12:47 Jeremy Martin But let me tell you what's happened to me. 1:12:49 Jeremy Martin Let me tell you what God has done for me. 1:12:51 Jeremy Martin And if that's an evangelist, sure, I'm an evangelist. 1:12:54 Jeremy Martin I won't ever take money for it though. 1:12:57 Sean Finnegan And how have your parents reacted to your life change? 1:13:03 Jeremy Martin Overwhelming joy. 1:13:05 Speaker 3 They've been praying for you for a long time. 1:13:09 Jeremy Martin They have been praying for me for a long time. 1:13:11 Jeremy Martin And my dad and I have had some very deep conversations. 1:13:14 Jeremy Martin He's like, what? 1:13:16 Jeremy Martin If me being blind was the cost of your salvation, I'm happy to pay it. 1:13:21 Jeremy Martin And we've actually sat down and we've come up with 42 positive outcomes that have come that would not have come had he still been sighted. 1:13:30 Jeremy Martin And even though I know it's a terrible burden for him to go through right now, we don't understand. 1:13:35 Jeremy Martin We see in a very limited 1:13:38 Jeremy Martin We have a very limited perception of all the circles in the pond that the stone that's thrown causes. 1:13:47 Jeremy Martin So I mean, who's to say, not me, but I know that God does have a plan and it's much better than my plan because he sees better than I do. 1:13:56 Speaker 3 Yeah. 1:13:57 Sean Finnegan Very good. 1:13:58 Sean Finnegan Well, anything else you 1:14:01 Sean Finnegan would like to say or that we should cover or that people can learn more about you somewhere. 1:14:07 Sean Finnegan Do you have like a website or anything? 1:14:10 Jeremy Martin No, I'm not that egocentric. 1:14:14 Jeremy Martin I have been writing recently, Marcia Railton has reached out to me at the beginning of this year and I've been writing for her website, the seekgrowlove.com. 1:14:28 Jeremy Martin And I think I've got about 40 devotionals written on there. 1:14:31 Sean Finnegan And I've got, yeah, credit on the homepage, seekrowlove.com, devotion by Jeremy Martin. 1:14:39 Jeremy Martin Oh yeah, today's one of them that I did, but I think I've got about 40 up there now from this year. 1:14:44 Sean Finnegan This is kind of like your output where you're able to write up your thoughts and share what you're learning in the Bible. 1:14:50 Jeremy Martin Yeah, So 1:14:53 Jeremy Martin It's the website itself is basically a read your Bible in a year type website and different people all through the states. 1:15:01 Jeremy Martin Andy Cisneros, who we talked about, has done a few. 1:15:04 Jeremy Martin I know his wife, Christy, has done a few. 1:15:07 Jeremy Martin Bunch of really good people that are better than I am. 1:15:09 Jeremy Martin I've done a bunch of them. 1:15:10 Jeremy Martin So it's been very enjoyable. 1:15:11 Jeremy Martin But this is also a good way for me to put my thoughts on paper and just get them out there. 1:15:17 Jeremy Martin And 1:15:20 Jeremy Martin There's not a lot of churches in my local area that believe the exact same that I do doctrinally, which, that's between them and God. 1:15:30 Jeremy Martin But it has been helpful to have a conversation with guys and be like, hey, look, check out this. 1:15:36 Jeremy Martin I wrote this. 1:15:37 Jeremy Martin And they're like, oh, so why do you believe this way? 1:15:39 Jeremy Martin And I said, well, this is what I think it says in scripture because of this, and this. 1:15:43 Jeremy Martin What do you believe? 1:15:43 Jeremy Martin Let's talk about it. 1:15:44 Jeremy Martin And then more importantly, 1:15:48 Jeremy Martin then what you believe is, how does that affect your actions towards your fellow creation and your creator? 1:15:58 Speaker 3 Awesome. 1:15:59 Sean Finnegan Anything else you'd like to share? 1:16:01 Jeremy Martin No, I just, I have to tell you how much I feel honored to be on here because there's been a lot of my role models on here, including yourself, sir. 1:16:12 Jeremy Martin Your podcast, 1:16:15 Jeremy Martin really helped save me from falling back into an entertainment dopamine replacement. 1:16:23 Jeremy Martin Yeah, Well, you know, I think it's natural for a little bit to distract ourselves, but you got to remember, I'm the professional of distracting myself to the umpteenth degree. 1:16:34 Jeremy Martin So it was very good to have both edifying and educational content that I could fill myself with as I got to the point that I needed to be. 1:16:45 Sean Finnegan I'm so glad to hear that it was helpful in that way. 1:16:48 Sean Finnegan That's not a use I was necessarily thinking of when I got started. 1:16:55 Sean Finnegan It's like, but 1:16:58 Sean Finnegan Whatever we do, whether it's writing articles for Seek Grow Love or putting out podcasts, God is able to use that how he wants to use it. 1:17:09 Jeremy Martin Absolutely. 1:17:09 Sean Finnegan With the people that he's working with. 1:17:12 Sean Finnegan So that's very cool. 1:17:13 Sean Finnegan Thank you so much for sharing that and for talking with me today. 1:17:17 Jeremy Martin I've been honored, honored and blessed. 1:17:20 Jeremy Martin And you know what? 1:17:21 Jeremy Martin If my stupidity can cause some intelligence and some other people, I'm happy to throw it all out there. 1:17:30 Sean Finnegan That brings this interview to a close. 1:17:32 Sean Finnegan What did you think? 1:17:33 Sean Finnegan Come on over to Restitudio and find episode 666. 1:17:38 Sean Finnegan Wow, I didn't plan that, but poor Jeremy got the 666 episode of this podcast. 1:17:47 Sean Finnegan Well, I think he would be okay with that. 1:17:53 Sean Finnegan recognizing that he himself was living an anti-Christian lifestyle for some time, but that God delivered him and that now he is on a new path and that he has been redeemed from that lifestyle. 1:18:07 Sean Finnegan So anyhow, if you have any questions or comments for him, it would be great to hear them on this episode at restitudio.org. 1:18:14 Sean Finnegan Now on last week's episode, 665, why I'm starting a church in Texas with Alex Ticer, Andy wrote in saying, Sean, thank you for all your hard work on the show. 1:18:25 Sean Finnegan I have really appreciated it a lot over the years. 1:18:29 Sean Finnegan Generally, you are pretty even-handed, but I think you treated the JWs a bit unfairly at the end of this episode in talking about Michael the Archangel. 1:18:40 Sean Finnegan I didn't think JWs were unthinking enough to pin a huge theology on a single verse like you made it sound. 1:18:47 Sean Finnegan So I took a few seconds with an AI chatbot and discovered that they don't. 1:18:53 Sean Finnegan There are other scriptures they point at. 1:18:56 Sean Finnegan I was not surprised to see a reference to the description in Daniel that calls Michael, who is like El, the prince over Israel. 1:19:05 Sean Finnegan I am not a JW, nor have I ever been one, nor do I recall ever having discussed theology with one, but I myself have wondered about Michael being the prince over Israel. 1:19:17 Sean Finnegan And the first time I heard that JWs teach Jesus as Michael, I thought to myself, I bet they tie that into Daniel 10. 1:19:25 Sean Finnegan If you are going to answer a question and start out by saying, I really don't know much about this, that's a good sign that you pause and do a little more research before you straw man your opponent. 1:19:35 Sean Finnegan If we're going to respectfully dialogue with others, it starts with the assumption that controversial beliefs don't go completely untested. 1:19:45 Sean Finnegan And usually that means arguments get developed beyond prima facie, even those arguments that turn out in the end to be weak or full of logical fallacies. 1:19:57 Sean Finnegan Well, Andy, let me just respond to you in a brief manner here. 1:20:01 Sean Finnegan First of all, thanks for writing in. 1:20:03 Sean Finnegan Thanks for engaging. 1:20:05 Sean Finnegan And thanks for adding a bit of data to the Jehovah's Witnesses case for Michael the Archangel. 1:20:13 Sean Finnegan honestly, I don't get how or why, based on what you said, that this description of Michael as an archangel in Daniel 10 has anything to do with him being Jesus. 1:20:25 Sean Finnegan So maybe that is just something that I missed and that's my mistake, but I don't see it. 1:20:33 Sean Finnegan Because he's the prince of Israel, he's Jesus. 1:20:37 Sean Finnegan Yeah, I'm not seeing it. 1:20:38 Sean Finnegan So I would love to hear more about that. 1:20:43 Sean Finnegan theory. 1:20:44 Sean Finnegan I did want to just clarify that you're right. 1:20:47 Sean Finnegan When I engage with comments and feedback at the end of each of these episodes each week, I'm not doing much research. 1:20:55 Sean Finnegan That's entirely true. 1:20:57 Sean Finnegan Maybe I should make a strong distinction. 1:21:00 Sean Finnegan The things that I say during an episode itself and the actual content of the episode, I do research and I do my best to fact check things and make sure they're completely accurate. 1:21:12 Sean Finnegan When I am answering people at the end of the episode, I'm just responding off the cuff. 1:21:18 Sean Finnegan I simply do not have time to research thoroughly responses to all of the different comments that come in. 1:21:29 Sean Finnegan So I appreciate the correction. 1:21:31 Sean Finnegan You're right. 1:21:32 Sean Finnegan I probably did not adequately represent the Jehovah's Witnesses and their reasons for 1:21:40 Sean Finnegan Calling Jesus Michael the Archangel. 1:21:43 Sean Finnegan So Andy, just at your suggestion, I typed into AI what were the reason, what are the reasons why the JWs believe Jesus is Michael the Archangel. 1:21:57 Sean Finnegan Reason #1 given is 1 Thessalonians 4.16, which was the reason that I mentioned in the episode last week. 1:22:05 Sean Finnegan that they say, they assume that because when Jesus comes with the voice of the archangel, that means Jesus is an archangel. 1:22:13 Sean Finnegan That's not what the verse says. 1:22:15 Sean Finnegan That's their interpretation of it. 1:22:16 Sean Finnegan That's their assumption of it. 1:22:19 Sean Finnegan could just as well be that Jesus comes and Michael the archangel comes at the same time, or that there are other archangels other than Michael that are not mentioned in scripture, but the scripture also doesn't say that Michael is the only archangel. 1:22:34 Sean Finnegan right? 1:22:35 Sean Finnegan So I think there's just several assumptions here. 1:22:39 Sean Finnegan In Jude 9, Michael is explicitly called an archangel. 1:22:43 Sean Finnegan Well, that's the second scripture given. 1:22:46 Sean Finnegan To me, that's not an argument that Jesus is Michael. 1:22:50 Sean Finnegan Down 12, 1, Michael stands up during a climactic time of trouble. 1:22:54 Sean Finnegan And the idea is that Jehovah's Witnesses are connecting that to end times role when Christ returns during a time of trouble. 1:23:02 Sean Finnegan Okay, well, 1:23:03 Sean Finnegan It could be that Jesus is Michael or that Jesus and Michael are working together. 1:23:08 Sean Finnegan Then we have Revelation 12, 7 through 9. 1:23:10 Sean Finnegan Michael and his angels fight Satan and cast him from heaven. 1:23:15 Sean Finnegan Jesus also defeats Satan. 1:23:17 Sean Finnegan Yeah, well that's again not sufficient to establish identity. 1:23:22 Sean Finnegan I eat chicken, Frank eats chicken, therefore Shawn is Frank. 1:23:25 Sean Finnegan Come on, that's not a logical reason to equate the two just because we're doing the same thing. 1:23:32 Sean Finnegan Matthew 24, 30 to 31, Jesus sends out his angels at his coming. 1:23:37 Sean Finnegan Michael also commands angels. 1:23:40 Sean Finnegan I think these are just incredibly weak scriptures that are laden with assumptions. 1:23:45 Sean Finnegan Actually, I gave the strongest verse, but Andy, I think your point is still sustained that they are going to have multiple verses for any doctrine, just like all Christians are going to have probably multiple verses for any doctrine. 1:24:01 Sean Finnegan and also have some sort of logic with it. 1:24:04 Sean Finnegan My purpose in responding to the fellow from Brazil was not to give a thorough refutation of Jehovah's Witnesses doctrines. 1:24:13 Sean Finnegan It was just simply to point out what were the doctrines that for me were red flags. 1:24:20 Sean Finnegan And so I mentioned Jesus being Michael the Archangel, I mentioned the blood transfusions, and I mentioned a couple others, and then the greater concern of the high control 1:24:29 Sean Finnegan stories that I hear from ex-Jehovah's Witnesses. 1:24:33 Sean Finnegan I totally hear your point, but I think my ramblings at the end of these episodes do still have a role to play, even if they're not at the same level of research as the content of the major episodes. 1:24:46 Sean Finnegan But yes, thanks for that corrective. 1:24:48 Sean Finnegan Appreciate you listening and taking the time to write in. 1:24:50 Sean Finnegan Incidentally, somebody else wrote in because I had an error in the audio file from last week where I actually missed out 1:24:59 Sean Finnegan somehow I deleted the voicemail that he left, the Brazilian fellow left. 1:25:04 Sean Finnegan And so thanks to Paul Mussel who messaged me and told me about that. 1:25:08 Sean Finnegan We got that all squared away so that people who listen to it subsequently do hear it. 1:25:14 Sean Finnegan That's going to be it for this week. 1:25:16 Sean Finnegan Thanks everybody for tuning in. 1:25:18 Sean Finnegan If you'd like to support us, you can do that at restitudio.org. 1:25:22 Sean Finnegan And so appreciate those of you who are supporting this ministry. 1:25:26 Sean Finnegan I'll catch you next week and remember the truth. 1:25:28 Sean Finnegan has nothing to fear.