This is the transcript of Restitutio episode 600: 1 Corinthians in Context 17 - Eschatology and the Afterlife with Sean Finnegan

This transcript was auto-generated and only approximates the contents of this episode.

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600 1 Corinthians 17.mp3

Transcript

00:00
Hey there, I'm Sean Finnegan. And you are listening to restitutio, a podcast that seeks to recover authentic Christianity and live it out today.

00:12
Today, we'll begin by surveying what first Corinthians tells us about the end times.

00:17
Then we'll consider why Paul spent so much time in Chapter 15 making a case for the resurrection of the Saints. When Christ returns by examining tomb inscriptions and ancient literary sources, you'll learn about the four major options.

00:33
Or the afterlife in the Greco-roman world, including one.

00:37
Nonexistence 2 ascension to the Stars 3 the Hades myth and four reincarnation.

00:46
My hope is you will come to see how radical and fresh the judeo-christian idea of resurrection was to the people of Corinth and understand why Paul felt the need to expend so much effort convincing them of it.

01:00
Here now is Episode 600 First Corinthians in contacts Part 17 eschatology and the afterlife.

01:16
To begin with, let me define the word eschatology because.

01:19
It's a weird word.

01:21
And it means your belief about the end times or last things. So the Bible talks about the end times quite a bit, and many different books of the Bible. But first Corinthians is our focus for this class. So I'm just going to.

01:36
Start by surveying what does first Corinthians tell us about the end times? It's a few verses here and there. We're gonna go through all of them.

01:45
Except for Chapter 15 and we'll hold chapter 15 for after we've gone through everything else, because there's more in Chapter 15 alone than all the rest of the the 16 full chapters combined. So let's just start at the top. First Corinthians chapter one, verse 7 says so that you are not lacking in any gift.

02:06
As you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, he will also strengthen you to the end so that you may be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

02:18
So we're looking for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ and the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. This is special terminology that we find. It's talking about a time when Christ will be revealed from heaven. Specifically, as I what I think this is talking about on a specific day, and that in light of that.

02:40
We should be strengthened to the end.

02:44
So we could be blameless on that day. We'll see a little bit more about this in Chapter 3, verse 12. It says now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, the work of each builder will become visible for the day will disclose it because it will be revealed with fire and the fire will test with sort of work.

03:06
Each has done so. This is the idea that we have.

03:11
Of a fire of some sort. Whether this is literal or figurative, but some sort of judgment based on what we have done and specifically in the context he's talking about how different ministers build with different materials and how they're they'll be evaluated. But the idea is simple enough. There is this.

03:32
Sense of a day. Once again, the day we'll disclose it, there's going to be a time, a definitive time when judgment occurs, and the truth will come out.

03:45
Chapter 4 verse 5 talks about this as well. It says, therefore, do not pronounce judgment before the time before the Lord comes.

03:54
All right, so the Lord's coming, that's good news. Who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purpose of the heart. Then each one will receive commendation from God. So this is once again very similar to what we've already read. The Lord comes, there's a judgment, and the truth is going to come out.

04:14
Chapter 5, verse 5.

04:16
You are to hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. Once again we get this phrase day of the Lord in the context we're talking about a guy who was sleeping with his father's wife, and they cast him out of the church, which is another way to say they handed him over to Satan. They took him out of the protection of Christ.

04:36
Have the body of Christ and and and sent him.

04:38
To.

04:39
The world, and I think the hope was that he would repent and that he would.

04:43
Eventually be saved.

04:45
Cause salvation comes in the day of the Lord and then on Chapter 6 we see in verse.

04:52
Too, this is a really big one. Do you not know that the Saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? Do you not know that we are to judge angels?

05:07
To say nothing of ordinary matters. So he talks about judging the world and judging angels here.

05:13
And this is new information as far as how we're going through first Corinthians, we had looked at the day of the Lord Jesus coming, Jesus being revealed. We looked at the sense of us being judged and evaluated, but we didn't see us being the judges. This is adding that extra element.

05:33
Of judging.

05:36
And I I think the word judge can can mean like in the Old Testament there were judges, they were, they were managers or administrators. It's not just deciding cases, but that was the context of Chapter 6. So it makes sense that he focused on that there. Gordon Fee writes about this. He says the future realities which for Paul are as certain as the present itself.

05:56
Condition everything the church is and does in the present. I really like that the future realities are supposed to condition everything the church is and does in the present. The future is supposed to affect our present.

06:13
So inclusive will be our participation in Gaza. That's got a logical judgment that not only the world, but even the angels will be judged by the newly formed eschatological people of God. Eschatological is just people of the end, people that are present in the end times.

06:29
Then in verse 9 we saw. Don't you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God's Kingdom?

06:37
God's Kingdom is part of the end. Times do not be deceived, no sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers or males who have sex with males. No thieves. Greedy people, drunkards, verbally abusive people or swindlers will inherit God's Kingdom. So if you are in sin, you will not inherit the Kingdom.

06:58
Of God, I mean, this is a very, very powerful text that we do well to pay attention to.

07:04
2.

07:06
Sin will keep us out of God's Kingdom on to verse 14, it says, and God raised the Lord and will also raise us by his power. This is talking about something that's happened in the past. God raised the Lord talking about Jesus, and then he says he will also raise us by his power.

07:26
This is saying that we are also, just like Jesus died and then was risen from the dead. We die and we too will be raised from the dead.

07:36
The context of chapter the second-half of Chapter 6 is prostitution.

07:42
And this is his theological point, because of which you shouldn't use prostitutes because you're going to have a body.

07:50
In the future, what you do with your body now counts. And so, though therefore don't go to the prostitutes or have them at your banquets.

07:59
On to the next one is Chapter 11, verse 26. For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he come.

08:08
So it's the idea of communion. Communion is proclaiming the Lord's death. It's a memorial. We're remembering what Christ has done for us, and we do that year by year. Well, hopefully more than once a year. But throughout the year and then year by year and then decade by and until the Lord comes. And then when the Lord comes, we don't memorialize his death anymore. He'll be right there.

08:30
So that'll be.

08:32
And then chapter 16, verse 22, let anyone be accursed who has no love for the Lord. And then he says our Lord come, which in the Greek is these two words, Marana tha, usually in English would say Maranatha. But the Greek the accent is on the second syllable.

08:51
Pretty clear Marana tha OK, but it's not even.

08:54
A Greek word.

08:56
Or two words.

08:57
It's so like even a Greek person will be like what?

09:02
Because it's actually an Aramaic saying they're spelling in Greek letters. OK, so if you, if you understood Aramaic, which is the original language of the land of Israel, well, may not the original, but the the language of the land of Israel.

09:17
At the time of Christ.

09:19
And Paul obviously speaks this language because he he slips this in here. This sort of like primitive, untranslated turn a phrase. Maranatha, it means come Lord or Lord come.

09:34
This is really interesting. Doesn't occur other places in the Bible, and it is something that I think indicates the desire for the Lord to come as opposed to the desire for us to go.

09:51
Do you see what I did there? So the the hope in the Christian is that the Lord will come, not that.

09:56
We would go.

09:58
We'll see more about that just shortly. That's everything about the end of the world in First Corinthians, except for what's in chapter 15. Now we must enter this massive chapter and consider what it says, and we won't have time to go verse by verse because I've got a lot of juicy background information that I think will make this chapter pop.

10:19
Let's just dive in. First Corinthians 1512 says now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead.

10:26
How can some of you say there is no resurrection of the dead?

10:30
And then at verse 35.

10:33
But someone will ask how are the dead raised with what kind of body do they come? So these are questions that are being asked by the Corinthian Christians. The first one is how could some of you say there is no resurrection of the dead? Well, that's not really a question. That's just something that they were saying. And Paul's.

10:53
Asking them the question why? Why don't you believe in the future resurrection?

10:58
And then over here in verse 35, they are asking the question how are the dead raised and what kind of body do they come? And 1st Corinthians 15 goes on and on explaining the kind of body and how that body is really an upgraded version of our current bodies that has continuity as well as significant upgrades.

11:18
Both of these verses expressed doubt verse 12 and verse 35 about resurrection. Some in Corinth didn't like the resurrection idea. They thought it was wrong, or they thought it was weird or whatever they thought they didn't like it, and they weren't believing in it, which is why Paul spent.

11:36
58 verses making a case for our future resurrection.

11:44
There's really nothing like it in the rest of the New Testament. This is the resurrection chapter of the New Testament.

11:50
And the question is why?

11:53
Why didn't they like resurrection? What was going on?

11:56
People in Corinth had a few options to choose from, and we're going to consider the four main options for what people in a city like Corinth in the 1st century would have thought about the afterlife.

12:09
Now, First off, some of them likely thought nothing happened. This would be the typical Epicurean view.

12:16
And so let's consider a few of those pieces of evidence. The first here is an inscription from a tombstone in Rome from the 2nd century. So a little after our time, but still within the ballpark, it says Hi, Nicomedes am happy.

12:35
I was not and I became I am not and nothing hurt.

12:40
To me, so you know, epitaphs tend to be as short and kind of rhythmic. So I think that's what's going on here. And so this person didn't exist, and then they did exist, and now they don't exist anymore. And nothing can hurt them.

12:56
And then we have another one here that says I was not and I came to be. I am not. I don't care.

13:04
This is said in the Greek I think hearing the Greek, you'll hear how it makes sense, oak Emin. Yumin. Oak EMI. Ooh, melly. Me. A lot of the same sound over and over again. And I think if you had a like a native Greek speaker, they would rattle that off much better than I and I can.

13:24
But you get the sense of the poetry of.

13:28
It.

13:28
We also have.

13:30
Another inscription that's in Latin and this one comes to us from the corpus inscriptiones Latinae arem. So these are. I just want to mention this. These are collections of inscriptions. So there's the CIL and the CIG. The CL is the corpus inscriptiones them Latin Arum. And then you have the corpus and.

13:52
Inscriptional M grichka and that is the the Greek version. So this one says non fooey fooey memini non zoom non curo which translated as I was not I was I remember I am not I do not.

14:07
Care.

14:10
What does that tell you? This person doesn't think they exist anymore. Here's another one very similar.

14:17
I was not. I was. I am not. I don't desire to be.

14:23
Very similar, and in fact these would sometimes just get abbreviated with just the first letter of each of the different words.

14:34
And that would be on the tomb, kind of like RIP and our time rest in peace, right?

14:41
Here's one more on this idea of non existence.

14:45
I believed in overdoing nothing. This guy is kind of a funny guy. Second or third century AD, I believed in overdoing nothing. He was not a try hard. I came and went away blameless. I observed everything human but did not pry into what is forbidden or seek to know whether I existed before.

15:05
Or whether I shall ever again.

15:09
So this is a very conservative fellow. He's like, I didn't mess around, you know, I just stayed in my lane. I did what I was supposed to do, and I didn't ask any big questions like, alright, well.

15:18
OK.

15:19
And now you've told us that too.

15:21
So that's option.

15:22
One, it's just nothing happens in the afterlife. You die, and that's it. Option #2 is kind of like a vague sense of ascension, which is either going up to heaven or going up to the stars. So here are some inscriptions on this one. This is from the epigrammata grichka #651.

15:40
This person says the good and discreet alienist was given this tomb by his father and concern for his mortal body, but his heart, which his immortal has leapt up among the blessed for the soul, lives forever. It is what gives life, and it has come down from God.

16:00
Stay your tears. My father and you, mother, stay my brothers from weeping. The body is the soul's tunic. But you must respect the God in me.

16:10
So this is the idea that this persons soul came down from God above and that now has left up among the blessed and really has become divine, has become a God in some sense.

16:23
Which they believe that could happen. You know, they had stories about, like, sleepiest, the he, the famous healer. He was a guy who became a God.

16:31
They didn't have a problem with that idea.

16:34
Here's another one the precinct of heavenly Zeus keeps me whom Apollo dot dot dot probably something wrong with the inscription there changed, for he took me immortal from the fire. So this is the idea that he's in the precinct of heavenly Zeus and in the fire they believed in cremation.

16:38
Who?

16:54
The Romans and the Greeks. And so when you had the fire, that's when you could escape. Your soul would escape and go up to heavenly Zeus in this case.

17:05
Here's another one. It says cease to lament the will of the gods, lest piety, ignorant that I have been received into the heavenly abode. There it is, grieve and offend the divine powers with sorrow. So he's basically he's telling people don't grieve for him because he's in the heavens. I will not sadly pass into the gloomy waves of Tartarus. That's the bad place.

17:28
You don't want to go there, nor will I be ferried across the waters of echaron as a shadow. Nor will I strike a dark colored boat with an ore. Nor will I fear you, Harry.

17:40
On with your terrible gaze. Nor will aged my nose pass judgment on me. Nor will I wander through dark places or be confined by waters. Rise and tell my mother so that she may not weep for me night and day. Like the grieving addict mother for Indies for Holy Venus has ordered that.

18:00
I not know the halls of silence, but has lifted me to the bright temples of the heavens.

18:08
So this is somebody that you know is convinced that he is going up to heaven.

18:15
And all hell can't stop them. That. That's Tartarus right there. It's like the idea of the.

18:19
Hell were you?

18:19
Tortured. This is really an interesting one because this is scription kind of talks about a lot of mythological elements that we haven't covered yet, but we're going to cover in a minute. So he mentioned Tartarus and Acheron, which is like this Big Lake.

18:35
And Haran, is the the ferryman that you pay off to transport you across the lake. And Minos is one of the judges.

18:45
That will decide your fate in the afterlife. And he's like. No, no, no, no. I'm going up, baby. I'm going up. Holy Venus has ordered that I not know the holes of silence, but has lifted me to the bright temples of the heavens. So this is, I know, as Christians we we're used to other Christians saying, oh, they're going to heaven.

19:06
This is actually a Pagan idea. This is this is not originally a Christian idea. This is something that was very widespread and Pagan Greco-roman beliefs. When I say Pagan, that's what I mean. The Roman religion, Greek and Roman religion.

19:19
Here's another one stand before the tomb and behold, young Churro Unwedded, daughter of Diognetus Hades, has set her in the 7th Circle. So that's the idea that you have. You have the earth. This is the the realm down here and the earth is the circle. And then above that you have the circle where you got the moon and then above that you've got another.

19:39
Circle and and maybe that's the sun. And then you've got some circles for planets. You know, this guy's all the way up in the 7th circle. So he's just he's just living his best life in the afterlife. And he's way up there in the 7th circle. So.

19:53
For him, here's another one. As she approached, this is actually a priestess for ISIS from Megalopolis. It says as she approached the altar and was paying her vows, she went respected by all to the stars.

20:08
Thus, without enduring sickness, she joined the demigods.

20:12
And I think I just got one more. Mother. Do not weep for me. What is the use? You ought rather to reverence me for. I have become an evening star among the gods. You see, the Greeks and the Romans. They believe the stars are actually living beings. They didn't think of them as just like balls of gas.

20:29
Something and as a result, to go be a star and this is kind of like The Lion King movie. But like you die. You wanna die and go become a star. And that would really be like an epic afterlife for you. All right, on to option #3. So the first option was non existence option #2 is Ascension.

20:50
Then option #3 is pretty much the the most popular view and we have not just inscriptions, but we also have literary evidence for this. So it's the idea of the Pluto or Hadis myth of the whole underworld.

21:06
OK, I'm going to read to you 2 versions of this. The first one is going to come from Homer. Homer. Nobody knows when he actually lived or when he actually wrote some estimates will put them like 1000 BC. Some will put them earlier than that. Some more conservative estimates would be like 706 fifty BC, but like.

21:26
He just lived a really long time before everybody else and this is what and and his writings influenced everyone hugely in.

21:33
The Greek world, at least.

21:35
So this is what Homer says in the Iliad. Book 23, he says the ghost of stricken Patrick Louis drifted up. He was like the man to the life. This is the ghost of a deceased man. He was like the man to the life, every feature, the same tall build and the fine eyes and voice.

21:55
And the very robes that used to clothe his body hovering at his head, the Phantom Rose, and spoke.

22:02
Sleeping Achilles, you've forgotten me? I'm trying to do my creepy voice. You've forgotten me, my friend.

22:08
And you never neglected me in life. Only now in death. Bury me quickly. Let me pass the gates of Hades.

22:19
They hold me off at a distance. All the souls, the shades of the burnout, breathless, dead, never to let me cross the river. They leave me to wander up and down. Abandon lost at the House of death with the all embracing gates. Oh, give me your hand.

22:40
I beg you with my team.

22:42
Years. Never again shall I return from Hades. Once you have given me the soothing rites of fire.

22:51
He goes on in the same breath. He stretched his loving arms but could not seize him. No, the ghost slipped underground like a wisp of smoke with a high thin cry, and Achilles sprang up with a start and staring wide, drove his fist together and cried in desolation. Oh God. So even in death strong.

23:11
House there is something left. A ghost, a phantom. True, but no real breath of life.

23:18
So this is a scene from a fictional book. Everybody knows it's fictional, but it it's a book that has massive influence in the ancient world. This is what they studied in school. This is. This is how they learned their ABC's is by reading Homer. OK. And so Homer is a big deal, huge influence. And what Homer puts forward as a theory of the afterlife.

23:39
Is that there is a underworld realm called Hades and that when humans die they have like this this spirit.

23:47
Version of themselves. It actually looks just like the embodied version, and that that spirit or ghost or phantom or whatever is stuck down there until the people in the land of the living properly bury the deceased. And so that's why he's talking about the soothing rites of fire.

24:07
He wants to be cremated. He died in battle. He wasn't properly buried. So he's coming back pretty much to haunt Achilles. To get Achilles to bury him properly so that he can cry.

24:19
Across the water, into the realm of Hades, he's stuck in kind of the foyer area, and it's not a it's not a happy place. So that's the the theory from Homer.

24:31
At least a little bit of it. I found a really full version of the Heidi Smith from Lucian of Sam Asada, but before I read it to you, I want to just let you know this guy's a total arrogant jerk.

24:45
And.

24:45
And he's kind of a wise guy. So, like a lot of his writings are just satires and just making fun of other people. He he he's kind of just a a mean spirited fellow in a lot of ways, but also sometimes pretty funny. Anyhow he he tells the whole story and says he doesn't believe in any of it.

25:06
OK. But he thinks a lot of other people do believe in it. So that's that's why I think it's really useful. And Lucia, Sam ASADA also made fun of us Christians. So that's why I kind of have a chip on my shoulder towards him. So holding that to his side for a moment, let's see what he says about Hades.

25:23
Here we go. This is from his book on funerals 2 through 10. He says the general herd whom philosophers call the laity trust Homer and Hesiod, and the other myth makers in these matters. So stupid people, which he calls the herd. It's like a herd of animals. The the hoi polloi or the laity, just the comb.

25:43
These folks, they trust Homer and Hesiod. Homer and Hesiod are the ancient authors. Well, they both write poetry and they Hessian wrote a book about all the gods, and they were just like of untouchable antiquity. And so the older something is, the better it is in their world. And he's like, yeah, they just trust the myth.

26:04
Makers and picking it up here and take their poetry for a law into themselves. So they suppose that there is a place deep under the Earth called Hades which is large and roomy and murky and sun.

26:18
That's I don't know how they imagine it to be lighted up so that everything and it can be seen. The king of the Abyss is a brother of Zeus named Pluto. Pluto is the Latin name for Hades.

26:31
He himself has been allotted the sovereignty of the dead, whom he receives, takes in charge and retains in close custody, permitting nobody whatsoever to go back up above. That's important.

26:44
So Hades takes the dead and he retains them in close custody.

26:50
He doesn't want anyone to go back up above except in all time of very few.

26:59
A very few.

27:01
For most important reasons, his country is surrounded by great rivers, fearful even in name, for they are called whaling, burning fire.

27:10
And the like.

27:11
But the principal feature is Lake Acharon, which lies in front, and 1st receives visitors. It cannot be crossed or passed without the ferryman. That's Charon, the ferryman by the descent, and the portal stands. The King's nephew Yakus, who is commander of the guard.

27:32
And beside him is a three headed dog.

27:37
With very long Fang, who gives a friendly, peaceable glance to those who come in but howls at those who try to run away and frightens them with his great mouth. After passing the lake on going in one comes next to a great Meadow, overgrown with asphodel, and to a spring that is inimical to memory.

27:58
So.

27:59
This is important. The asphodel fields and then the spring or source of water that is going to make you forget.

28:08
In fact, they call it oblivion. For that reason, he goes on Pluto and Persephone as these people. Persephone is like Pluto's wife, more or less as these people have said, are the rulers and receive the good just men who have lived virtuously when many have been collected, send them off as if to a colony.

28:28
2 The Elysian Fields, so that is the good place.

28:34
To take part in the best life, but if they come upon any rascals, turning them over to the Furies, they send them to the place of the wicked, which is another name. For that is Tartarus, to be punished in proportion to their wickedness there. Ah, what punishment do they not undergo? They are racked.

28:55
Burned, devoured by vultures, turned upon a wheel. They roll stones uphill. And As for tantalis, he stands on the very brink of the lake, with a parched throat like to die, poor fellow for thirst.

29:09
But those of the middle way, so this is the third option in the afterlife for the Hades myth, and they are many wander about in the Meadow without their bodies in the form of shadows that vanish like smoke in your fingers. They get their nourishment naturally from the libations that are poured in our world.

29:29
And the burnt offerings at the tomb so that if anyone has not left friend or King's been behind him on Earth, he goes about his business there as an unfed corpse.

29:39
In the state of famine, so thoroughly are people taken in by all this that when one of the family dies immediately they bring in Opal and put it in his mouth to pay the ferryman for setting him over. So that's the myth Lucian doesn't believe in any of it. He's like I mentioned a second century source.

29:59
But he's he's relating just like common traditional themes that a lot of people did believe in. It is rather elaborate, but my big point for you guys is that first of all.

30:12
Well, the person immediately goes to the realm of Hades and that this person is the judged to to well, if they're properly buried, they can get over the body of water and then be judged to go to either elisium, which is the good place where everything is pretty nice.

30:32
Or the middle way, which is just like a a field or a Meadow where you just kind of like wander around. You're kind of miserable, but you're basically OK.

30:40
As long as every year your relatives or descendants, or whoever honors you at your tomb and gives the offering of alcohol or of food, or brings flowers, those kinds of things, that's what sustains you in the afterlife. So if you have trained up your children well and your children are doing these rituals.

31:02
You could be somewhat OK even if you weren't, like super virtuous enough to end up in Alice.

31:07
Yeah. And then the the bad folks go to Tartarus, the place of the.

31:10
Wicked, where they're just tortured.

31:12
So that's the the general myth, and this is something that we start to see in peoples inscriptions. So here's here. I'm just going to hit you with a few really fast here. The first one is from Florence.

31:27
It's somebody who had died, obviously, and it says I have gone to the gastly city of Hades. So the city of Hades would include all of these options. It's a whole realm that they believe was under the Earth.

31:39
Then.

31:40
Another one from Naples, says Hermes. Messenger of Persephone. Why do you send him before us to Haiti's Tartarus, where there is no laughter? This guy's not doing too well, you know, even his family. Who puts this inscription together? Like, yeah, he's going to Tartarus like he wasn't a good guy.

32:01
And then they also see like before us, like, yeah, we're probably going to Tartars too. This must have been like one of those original gangs where they're like, well, if you can't be in Elysium.

32:12
Have the first seat in Tartarus or whatever. Here's another one. This one comes from Sisyphus. It says the tomb keeps only the name of Mika. Her soul is with the pious. It is among the Elysian fields. So yeah, we have Hades in general. Then we have Tartarus. And then.

32:31
This girl, her family, believes she's going to the Elysian Field, so good for her. Sounds pretty nice.

32:37
Here's another one a little bit longer. This one is a little sad, but it's it's worth reading.

32:43
It says you did not die Protee but moved to a better place. How many times you hear Christians say that?

32:52
So and so is in a better place now. This is Pagan terminology. We don't find this in the Bible anywhere and says you dwell in the Blessed Islands far from all evils, rejoicing in the flowers of the Elysian fields. No winter afflicts you, nor heat nor disease troubles you.

33:10
Neither thirst nor hunger touches you, but you no longer, even long for the life of.

33:16
Men for you live without reproach in the pure rays of Olympus Mountain Olympus is where the gods lived truly close by. This is the person who paid for the inscription P alias, abscond. This father of Alia proti. She lives seven years, 11 months.

33:36
In 27 days, Super SAD, but a good reminder that in the ancient world children were dying all the.

33:42
Time and so this was a very normal thing. I think you've already seen somewhere. I was. I was showing you, says mother. Don't weep for me, Father. Don't weep for me like it was pretty standard for people to die before their parents in that world.

33:58
All right on to option #4. So the first one was nothing really in the afterlife.

34:03
The second one was going up to heaven. The third one was going down to Hades and then now the 4th 1 is reincarnation and reincarnation was a bit more highbrow, a bit more sophisticated. You're not going to read about it.

34:20
In Homer, but.

34:21
You will read about it in Plato.

34:23
In like 5 or 6 different places, I'm just going to quote to you from Plato's Republic, but it's in the Timaeus.

34:30
It's in the Phaedrus. It's in the photo. I mean. It's it's in multiple places. So what? I'm gonna read to you is called the myth of ur. And it's from Plato's Republic, book 10. OK. And it's really fascinating.

34:45
And somewhat similar to the the Hades myth, but also different. OK, this is what he says. He says he or said that when his soul departed, it made a journey in the company of many. And they came to a certain demonic place where there were two openings in the Earth next to one another and again.

35:05
Two in the heaven above and opposite the.

35:08
Others between them SAT judges who, when they had passed judgment, told the judge to continue their journey to the right and upward through the heaven, and they attach signs of the judgments in front of them. The unjust they told to continue their journey to the left and down, and they had behind them signs of everything.

35:29
They had done, let me just pause it right there so.

35:31
So in the subterranean compartment known as Hades, you have the three different options you had, the Elysium, Elysian fields. Then you had the like, middle way of the Meadow, and then you had Tartarus, right? This is different than that. This you you start in kind of like a limbo zone.

35:51
He calls it a place of demonic right, a certain demonic place is what he.

35:56
What that exactly means is not clear to me, but it's not a happy place. We could say that it's not like Disney World, where like Mickey Mouse meets you in the afterlife. It's sort of like kind of a weird place or sad place and what he sees in this place is that there's this judge judgment. But then there are.

36:16
Two holes going up, two tunnels going up and then two tunnels going down. And it's like one way each one is a one way St. if I could put it that way. A one way passage. OK. So if you go up and right, you go up to heaven.

36:32
The and then to come back down from heaven to where they are is on the left side, so you have up and right and then up and left is the ones that are coming back. So it's going up and coming back up and down from heaven and then the other one is just the opposite on the right side, you're going down into the earth under the earth.

36:52
And then these other ones are the ones coming up from the left side.

36:56
And that's why you should always drive on the.

36:58
Right side of the road.

37:00
Take that England anyhow, he says. Yeah, right and upward, through heaven. And the unjust. We're left and down. So I had that just slightly off, so left and down there you have it. He goes on as to the other two openings, soles out of the Earth, full of dirt and dust came up from one of them.

37:20
And down from the other came other souls pure from heaven and the souls that were ever arriving looked as though they had come from a long.

37:29
Journey and they went away with delight to the Meadow. So we still have the Meadow, kind of like the middle zone. And they told their stories to one another, the ones lamenting and crying, remembering how much and what sort of things they had suffered and seen in the journey under the Earth. The journey lasts 1000 years. Wow.

37:49
So does that give you a little perspective on this? Let me just pause it right here, OK, so people die. They either go up to the heavenly realm or down to the subterranean below the earth realm. OK, they're there for 1000 years, and then they loop back and they come back to where they started.

38:08
And they're meeting up in this Meadow. And they're like, yo, I just had the best thousand years. It was so great. I was living up there with the stars. I was doing all the things. It was amazing. And then these other souls are like, ohh well, I had a terrible thousand years. Like, I was just suffering the whole time and, like, paying for all my past indiscretions. And I don't know if they would use the word sin.

38:30
That's kind of a Christian thing, but you know the.

38:32
My unvirtuous act.

38:34
Maybe that's how they would say it, and they're all just kind of mixing there in the Meadow and we're going to see what happens next.

38:41
He goes on and those from heaven in their turn told of the inconceivable beauty of the experiences and the sights there. When we were near the mouth about to go up and had suffered everything else, we suddenly saw tyrants. These are the really bad people, tyrants, dictators. But there were also some private men.

39:01
Of those who had committed great.

39:03
Pulse. They suppose they were ready to go up, but the mouse did not admit them. It roared when one of those whose badniks is incurable, or who had not paid a sufficient penalty, attempted to go up. There were men at that place who took hold of some and led them away, threw them down and stripped off their skin.

39:23
Well.

39:24
They dragged them along the wayside, carting them like wool on thorns. These men would be led away and thrown into Tartarus.

39:34
So that that's like the really bad place when each group had spent seven days in the plane. So back to the regular souls, the heavenly and the earthly souls. After seven days in the plane on the eighth, they were made to depart from there and continue their journey. In four days they arrived at a place which they could see a straight light.

39:54
Like a column.

39:55
Stretched from above, through all of heaven and Earth, most of all resembling the rainbow, but brighter and purer. So this is where it gets a little sci-fi.

40:05
For this light is that which binds heaven like the under girders of triremes. Thus holding the entire revolution together from the extremities, stretched the spindle of necessity by which all the revolutions are turned. Now when they arrived, a certain spokesman first marshaled them at regular distances from each other then.

40:28
They took lots.

40:29
This is like rolling dice, you know, taking a lot to decide who goes next.

40:35
Let him who gets the first lot make the first choice of a life to which he will be bound by necessity. When he had said this, he cast the lots among them all, and each picked up the one that fell next to him. After this in turn he set the patterns of the lives on the ground. Before them. There were far more than there were souls present.

40:56
There were all sorts lives of all animals, and in particular all the varieties of human lives. Let me let me pause it there. Alright so.

41:04
So you have the soles. They're coming in. First of all, you're going to either get rewarded or get punished. Alright, just as a starting place. Then after 1000 years, you're going to circle back around to sort of like the the judgement area and you're going to go to this Meadow and in the Meadow you're going to have a little camp out going to last a few days like a week, week and 1/2.

41:27
And then eventually you're going to arrive at sort of like the center of the universe. This like weird spindle of necessity that's controlling all these revolutions that Plato goes on to describe. And I skipped because.

41:40
This is the only this is already too long, so then the only souls are there. They've already all paid their dues or received their reward. Now it's time to go again. It's time to be reincarnated. So now they're they're giving lots. Everyone is going to have a turn. It's just like a number in a deli line. Where? OK, I'm #20.

42:00
You're #3. He's #17, right? So now they're each going to take a turn, and then whoever's first we'll see all the different patterns of lives of animals and humans that you could be. And you're gonna pick which one you want, and then you're gonna go back into the world of the living and live that life.

42:19
Let's pick it up from where I left off for the most part, the choice was made according to the habituation of their former life. That makes sense. You probably do the same thing you did last time, right? He said he saw a soul that once belonged to Orpheus, choosing a life of a swan.

42:37
Out of hatred for woman.

42:38
Kind due to his death at their hands, he was sexist. He wasn't willing to be born, generated in a woman. He's like make me a swan. I don't want to deal with human women. He saw the viruses. So choosing the life of a Nightingale. He also saw a swan changing to the choice of a human.

42:56
Life other musical animals did the same thing. The soul that got the 20th lot chose the life of a lion and after him was the soul of Agamemnon. It too hated humankind as a result of its sufferings and therefore changed to the life of an eagle.

43:13
And by chance, Odysseus's soul had drawn the last lot of all and went to choose from memory of its former laborers, and had recovered from the love of honor. It went around for a long time, looking for the life of a private man who minds his own business.

43:35
And with effort, if found, one lying somewhere neglected by the others, when all the souls had chosen lives in the same order as the lots they had drawn, they went forward, all made their way through terrible, stifling heat to the plane of leafy. This is important too. Now. It was an of necessity for all to drink a certain measure of water.

43:56
For those who were not saved by prudence drank more than the measure as he drank, each forgot everything.

44:03
So reincarnation depends on forgetting stuff, right? Because you don't remember your previous life? I I've just speak for myself. I don't. So how do you, how do you account for that? Well, there's this place called Letha. And you drink the water there and it may. It wipes your memory. And when they had gone to sleep and it was midnight, there came Thunder and an earthquake and they were suddenly carried from there.

44:24
Each in a different way, up to their birth shooting like stars. So I know that was a really long read, but that's the myth of err from Plato, one of the most sophisticated thinkers of the ancient world, but not really something that was popular among regular people.

44:42
Now when it comes to two inscriptions, we don't have much evidence of reincarnation. People that believed in that, they don't really talk about it except for we have these weird golden rectangular pieces of foil. OK, they're, like, very thin pieces of.

45:01
Well, and they have Greek writing on them. Here's a picture of 1 and these are found in certain tombs, either in the person's mouth or on their hand, or just somehow like attached to them a lot of times they'll.

45:16
Be folded and.

45:16
Rolled up. We have some in artwork as well, and there's only ever been found.

45:21
So far, about 35, they're called Orphic Golden tablets.

45:26
And they date from anywhere between 400 BC and 260 AD, so this is a whole period of time.

45:35
Some experts Burnaby and Cristobal, write about this in their book instructions for the nether world. They say in the scheme described in the tablets, the soul which is active, finds itself faced by a test it must overcome.

45:51
This is the behavior demanded from the soul in the moment of its transition to the other world that it should not take the wrong path.

46:00
Everything depends on it and on the fact that it remembers what it must do. If it does what it should do, it will be successful. If it makes a mistake, it will be reincarnated. So the Orphic Mystery religion basically told people look, if you stick with us.

46:20
We're going to give you the secret instructions for the afterlife so you don't have to be reincarnated over and over. You can escape the cycle and you can become a God more or less. You can escape the the human or animal cycle that comes around and around and around. So yes, the orphan.

46:38
Thick religion. They definitely believe in reincarnation. A lot of people speculate that Plato got this from Orphism, which predated Plato, but it wasn't super popular. But if you were training philosophy, you would know this stuff.

46:55
Because Plato's the man. So people that were philosophically aware they would be like, yeah, you know, I think I think reincarnation. Probably. Yeah, that makes sense. And they would look down on people that believed in the myths of Hades and the underworld, and the three headed dog. They'd be like 3 headed dog.

47:13
Come on. Right. So you could you could imagine that there were different thoughts on this sort of thing. Alright. So in summary, we have 4 main options. You have non existence ascending to heaven, the Pluto or Hades myth. And last of all reincarnation. And Paul challenged all of them.

47:31
With this interesting, unusual out-of-the-box Jewish idea of resurrection.

47:40
Getting your body back is not on the list.

47:45
You can have a soul going to a different body of a different being, right? That's reincarnation. But getting your body back fixed.

47:53
It it, it must have just sounded crazy or or or weird to people, Paul says in first Corinthians 15, verse 3 for I handed on to you as of first importance what I in turn had received that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the.

48:09
Scriptures and that he was buried and that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the 12. Then he appeared to more than 500 brothers and sisters at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have died. Then he appeared to James, then to all the Apostles.

48:29
Last of all, as to 1 untimely born, he appeared also. To me this is Paul giving his list of eyewitnesses he's using using the language of tradition. I hand it to you what I had received.

48:44
So Paul's not making this up. He had received. Somebody, had handed it to him, and then he had handed it to the Corinthians when he was there three years earlier, and now he's writing first Corinthians. He's he's reminding them what he had told them when he was with them, that Jesus died, was buried, and was raised from the dead. And people saw him. And Paul has himself.

49:05
On this list, last of all, as to 1 untimely born, he appeared also to me.

49:12
So Paul's adding himself to the list of eyewitnesses, and he's got this one line here about 500 brothers at once, 500 brothers and sisters at one time. And he's like, just daring them, like, most of whom are still alive. Why?

49:23
Don't you go talk to him.

49:25
So this is a very strong testimony, evidence, you know, rhetorical strategy to convince people of the legitimacy of the resurrection of Jesus.

49:39
Now the Greeks had some stories about people coming back from the underworld. They generally had stories about people not coming back, OK. And then then I'll share with you one story where they do come back. All right, this is Ice Gillis and the humidities or escalates and humidities he writes. This is actually Apollo.

49:59
Speaking fetters, he can undo. There is a cure for that affliction. Talking about what Apollo can do, and many a device for getting him released. But when once a man has died and the dust has sucked up his blood, there is no rising again.

50:14
So that was a standard way of thinking in their world. This East Coast guy is running in 458 BC, went well before our time. And this is just a generally understood thing. Pausanias talks about Asclepius and he says that he heard that Asclepius had been raising.

50:34
Dead man to life. The Sleepiest was known to be a healer, and so Pausanias, who's like kind of relating tourist myths as he travels from place to place and kind of gets the the local stories. And he's like, yeah, sleepiest, you know, he was raising people back to life. But here's the thing. Diodorus of Sicily clarifies.

50:52
This and I I think people understood this pretty well that Asclepius wasn't necessarily raising the dead. Instead what he was doing was he healed sick people whose lives had been despaired of, or for this reason it was believed that he had brought.

51:07
Back.

51:08
To life, many who had died so he didn't actually raised the dead.

51:13
That he healed people that were really sick almost at the point of death.

51:18
And so he brought them back from death. In other words, he didn't actually raise the dead.

51:23
Then there was the Orpheus myth.

51:25
Which we're running short on time, so I'm not going to read it to you, but Virgil has a beautiful retelling of the Orpheus myth. Orpheus lost his wife. You're rid of. See. Super sad. He loved her so much and he was an awesome musician. So he had some, like, serious skills that people in the underworld were like, pretty impressed with. And they let him come down because he's he's a star.

51:45
So he he he came down into the underworld and he went. He found his wife, he found iridescent. He and. And he was told by Persephone that he could bring her back.

51:54
But the whole way up, he can't look at her. And if he looks at her, she'll disappear and go back to Hades. So he's on his whole way up and he's and he's getting so close to the edge. And at the last moment, just before he gets top side, he looks back and he sees her, and then she vanishes like smoke. And so the point of the myth.

52:14
Is you can't come back from the.

52:15
Dead.

52:18
Which leads us to this one. This is the only one I could find of a resurrection in the Greco-roman literature Euripides story of orchestras. And it's obviously just fictional.

52:30
I think even in the ancient times they were like, yeah, it's a funny story. It goes like this. Adamitis's wife Alcestis died and he grieved for her. Heracles. This will be known as Hercules, right, Heracles. I must save the woman who had just died and show my gratitude to admit us by restoring acastus once more to this House.

52:50
And I should mention to you, this is from also 438 BC.

52:56
He goes on, I shall go and look for the black robe Lord of the Dead death himself. And I think I shall find him drinking from the offerings near the tomb. And if once I rush from ambush and catch him in my side crushing grip, no one shall take him from me until he releases the woman to me.

53:16
But if I fail to catch this quarry and he does not come to the blood offering, I shall go down to the sunless House of Persephone and her Lord in the world below, and shall ask for Augustus. And I think I shall bring her up and put her in the hands of my friend. He welcomed me into his house and did not drive me away.

53:36
Though he had suffered grievous misfortune in his nobility, he concealed it out of respect for me. So in this in the play this is.

53:44
Play that's where Hercules does he he he hides out by the tomb of Alkistis. He waits for death. Thanatos to show up. And he just like bum rushes him, grabs him. And he won't let him go until he lets this this woman out of the underworld. And then he presents her to her husband as alive.

54:04
From the debt, so that's the only resurrection story I could find. Maybe there are others out there, I don't know. Everything. Obviously it's it's a very vast body of literature, but like, this is not doing us Christians any favors. This little story here, it's just kind of weird. And it's not like reputable people would be like, oh, yeah, resurrection sounds real plausible.

54:24
And yet Paul goes.

54:25
All in on resurrection. He's like, no, no, no, no. I'm 100% committed to this idea. We really have to have this.

54:33
So maybe the Corinthian Christians could accept that Jesus got resurrected since he ascended shortly thereafter and Ascension was well understood. They believed in Ascension. That was no big deal. Resurrection was weird, but Ascension was.

54:46
But they didn't want to think that they would be resurrected in the future. That was really weird.

54:53
But that's what Paul says. First Corinthians 1512. Now, if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say there is no resurrection of the dead if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, then our proclamation is in vain and your faith is in vain. So Paul comes at this heart.

55:13
He says if you don't accept our future resurrection, then that means Christ is not raised from the dead. And if Christ is not raised from the dead, what are we doing here? What's the point?

55:24
None of this is true.

55:27
So it's a really strong linking together of Christ's resurrection with our future resurrection, and he has to go. It's so hard because the philosophically minded person would have thought this idea as opposed to non existence going to heaven going to the underworld or reincarnation. Those were all reasonable options. This idea, this resurrection.

55:48
Yeah, it was weird. It was like, so we got to believe that.

55:53
Dale Martin writes. Thus the idea of resurrection of the body would indeed have struck some Greeks as ridiculous or incomprehensible. Specifically, the notion would have offended the educated. Those exposed, at least minimally to philosophical arguments and assumptions. Of course, due to the uniformity of higher education in the Greco-roman.

56:14
The world, all people so educated, could be expected to hold similar views, at least on basic points, regardless of which philosophical school commanded their allegiance, or lack thereof.

56:26
And in the early Roman Empire, one of those basic points was that whatever one believes about life after death, promises of resurrected bodies were not to be given any credence. Such gullibility was reserved for the uneducated. That is, the vast majority of the inhabitants of the empire. So then Paul.

56:46
Goes on to tell about the end and I'm just going to skip ahead to that. It's in first Corinthians 15, verse 20 through 28, and I really want to read this to you, even though we're long on time because this is really the most succinct summary of what.

57:04
He believes about the end times. First Corinthians 1520 says, but in fact Christ has been raised from the dead. The first fruits of those who have died for since death came through a human. The resurrection of the dead has also come through a human. For as all die, and Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ.

57:25
But each in its own order, Christ the first fruits, then at his coming the day of the Lord. That's how he started, right. Those who belong to Christ.

57:35
Then after that comes the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to God the father after he has destroyed every ruler and every authority and power, for he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death, for God has put all things in subjection.

57:56
Under his feet. But when it says all things are put in subjection, it is plain that this does not include the one who put all things in subjection under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the son himself will also be subjected to the one who put all things in subjection under him, so that God may be All in all.

58:15
This is a mini apocalypse.

58:18
A brief little overview of what happens in the end, Christ comes back. His followers are raised from the dead. Christ Reigns on the earth. He defeats everything. All the authorities, all the powers, and then even death itself, and then hands over the Kingdom to God. That's a simple.

58:38
Cool, easy, but totally weird belief that Paul is expecting the Corinthians to to entertain and and to to hold to themselves. And so the idea is that this earth is the arena of redemption, not the stars, not the underworlds.

58:58
Not endless cycles of reincarnation.

59:01
He concludes with the words I have to skip ahead because we we just can't deal with all the content in Chapter 15. But the last verse says therefore my beloved brothers and sisters be steadfast, immovable, always excelling in the work of the Lord. Because you know that your labor is not in vain.

59:21
Because of resurrection, because of our hope and respect.

59:24
Direction. We know that our labor, the things we do with our bodies and and our with each other now is not empty because it is going to be rewarded in the life to come. Well, that draws to an end. Our exploration of Paul's eschatology. Now you've got a big fancy word you can use. Next time we'll summarize.

59:44
The different subjects that we've looked at during this class and then also consider what happened after Paul left Corinth.

59:52
What happened after he wrote this epistle? Did they listen to him? Did they ignore him? What happened next? And we'll do that as we continue in our class. 1st Corinthians in context.

1:00:07
Well, that brings this presentation to a conclusion. What did you think? Come on over to restitutio.org and find episode 600. Wow. Can you believe it's been 600 episodes for this podcast?

1:00:22
Just incredible. We just put them out every week and I guess it's been 600 weeks since we started. Actually, that's not entirely true. Early on in the first year or second year. I don't remember which I was extra industrious and was putting out two episodes a week for a time.

1:00:42
And then I just knocked that off because it was just.

1:00:46
It was just crazy anyhow.

1:00:48
Episode 600, eschatology and the afterlife put your comments on the website restitutio.org so everyone else can see what you have to say and what your questions are.

1:01:00
Now in our last episode 599, which was called Love and edification in the Assembly.

1:01:08
Someone named Dynamic commented in on Spotify saying what is the reference for Eusebius mentioning the dispute over whether Jesus is a God or still a man among dynamic monarchianism.

1:01:22
The closest thing I can think of which you are referring to would be Hippolytus describing the theodosian's beliefs differing on whether Jesus became a God at the baptism or at his resurrection. He mentions nothing of them disputing over whether he was still a man.

1:01:39
All right, my friend, dynamic. Thanks for commenting in. Having checked my references, you are correct, it was not you, Sebelius. It was Hippolytus.

1:01:51
And I can just read this from the David Litwa translation refutation of all Heresies, 735. Two, which says Jesus was born a human being from a virgin according to the father's will. This is Hippolytus or pseudo Hippolytus describing Theodotus the Byzantine.

1:02:11
And that is really a great description, right? Jesus was born a human being from a virgin according to the father's will. And then he goes on to talk about Hippolytus says, but they do not want him to have become a God when the spirit descended.

1:02:28
This is the idea that some people presumably had, although I think the historical evidence for this is super.

1:02:34
Then of the idea of adoptionism, I guess that a human being becomes a God when the spirit descended upon him at his baptism, and then his politics goes on to say. Others say that he became a God after he rose from the dead. So his politics is saying that one group of theodocia ANS these are people who agreed with Theodotus of of.

1:02:55
Is antium.

1:02:57
Believe that Jesus was born of a virgin. He didn't exist before he was born of a virgin. He lived a sinless life and after he was crucified was raised from the dead.

1:03:09
And that some of them do not regard him as a God, while others do regard him as a God after he rose from the dead, identifying him as divinized in some sense because he's no longer mortal. I would probably guess is what they mean by.

1:03:25
But honestly, either way I'm fine with with that position, although I wouldn't use that terminology today, because when you say Jesus is God, people think you mean God in the same sense that the father is God, and that is certainly not the case biblically. So thank you for that.

1:03:45
Correction dynamic. I was off on my source there and that's what happens when you just speak off the cuff at the end of an episode rather than looking everything up. So thanks for that.

1:03:56
Well, I also wanted to mention that I recently put out a brand new YouTube video with myself, Josh Jones, Daisy Jones, Rosalind Frozen Dal Dan Weatherall and Kevin Hedger, and this was called the UCLA event everyone's talking about.

1:04:16
Here's why you should come, and this was just.

1:04:19
A pitch for.

1:04:20
Our upcoming conference, July 24th to the 27th really 26th, 27th is open.

1:04:26
You know, it's a weekend event held in Uxbridge, UK, which is just West of London and so I am not able to put that out on the podcast this time because I have this class that I want to finish up and have something else that's already planned for after this and and honestly this couldn't wait because people need to sign up now.

1:04:46
If they're going to this event. So yeah, take a look on YouTube if you want to hear about it. Even if you can't make it and you're just curious and would like to know what it's like, take a look at that on the rest of Studio YouTube channel. You can just type in.

1:05:00
Restitutio and you'll be able to find us that way. Once again, Restitutio is just restitution with no north and you'll be able to find us if you are thinking of going to this event, please register as soon as you can. There are options for people to stay off campus at wherever they want. Hotel, Airbnb, friend's house.

1:05:20
Whatever. Or you can stay at Denham Grove Hotel, which is where the majority of us will probably be staying, and that's a site that includes food as well as lodging.

1:05:31
And so if you want to know more about that, go over to unitarianchristianalliance.org and then there's a menu and one of the menu options is events. Go ahead and click UK international conference and that will give you a link to the site for conference information and region.

1:05:51
Creation and you could sign up and come. I would love to see so many of you who I know through comments or emails and we've never met in real life, but I'm very excited to be going with my family to this event. I do not know if I'll be going to these in the future. I did not go last year.

1:06:11
It is quite a thing to plan for that and pay for that and handle the logistics to go to another country. As many of you know. So if you would like to meet me, I would love to meet you. Come to this event.

1:06:25
Also speaking at the event is going to be the famous Dale Tuggy Dustin Smith.

1:06:34
Myself and Mark Cain, who has in the past done kind of a variety night which is actually just a ton of fun, and if you know Mark, he was the host of the Unitarian Christian Alliance pod.

1:06:48
Guest and he's a very humorous and enjoyable person that I think you would love to get to know if you can come. Hopefully his wife Karen will be there as well and and I've heard of others who are sending in papers and you know, the paper deadline occurred last night. So we don't know for sure who the other folks are who will be coming.

1:07:09
And I know that Dan Wetherall is on the committee and he has a a Chris Adelphian podcast and that there are a number of others from America and England and Germany and Scandinavia.

1:07:25
Hopefully also Austria that are that are going to be coming. So hey, sign up if you're interested in coming.

1:07:33
Well, that's about enough for today. Thanks everybody for listening to the end. If you'd like to support us, you can do that at restitutio.org. Thanks to those of you who are supporting us. I'll catch you next week and that will be our finale for this first Corinthians in contacts class. What's?

1:07:50
A journey that's been so stay tuned for that where we will find out what happened after Paul wrote to the Corinthians. So stay tuned for that. We'll see you next week and remember, the truth has nothing to fear.