This is the transcript of Restitutio episode 599: 1 Corinthians in Context 16 - Love and Edification in the Assembly with Sean Finnegan

This transcript was auto-generated and only approximates the contents of this episode.

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599 1 Corinthians 16.mp3

Transcript

00:00
Hey there, I'm Sean Finnegan. And you are listening to restitutio, a podcast that seeks to recover authentic Christianity and live it out today.

00:12
Today, we're going to look at chapters 1213 and 14 of First Corinthians as a unit. We'll see that the body analogy in 12 the love poem in 13 and the repeated concern for up building in 14 are all slightly different angles of approach to the same goal. When the Corinthian Christians were getting together to worship.

00:33
It was chaos.

00:35
People were talking over each other, eager to manifest the Holy Spirit rather than telling them to cease from divine speech in the Assembly, Paul instead focused their attention on the priority for being considerate of one another. Actually, he was way more radical than that, but I don't want to give everything away in this little intro. You'll just have to keep listening.

00:56
If you want to.

00:56
Know more here now is.

00:58
Episode 599, part 16 of our First Corinthians in context class, love and edification in the Assembly.

01:13
My goal for today is to look at chapters 1213 and 14 and go through them in kind of a quick way, but in a way that holds them all together. So starting off in Chapter 12, not going through every single verse, but I just want to hit this really important body analogy.

01:34
In chapter 12 verse 12, it says for justice as the body is 1 and has many members and all the members of the body, though many are one body. So it is with Christ.

01:45
For in the one spirit, we were all baptized into one body, Jews or Greeks, slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of 1 spirit. Indeed, the body does not consist of 1 member, but of many.

02:00
Now when we see this body language.

02:03
What is going on?

02:06
He's talking about a body and he's talking about people making up a body now.

02:12
Just to say something really obvious, usually each person has their own body. OK, so he's looking at a group of people as a body. As it turns out, this was not a foreign or new idea. This was a standard way of talking about communities.

02:26
And we find that in dial Chrysostom, in his 34th discourse, he says if one were to run through the entire list of citizens, I believe he would not discover even two men in Tarsus who think alike. But On the contrary, just as with certain incurable and distressing diseases which are accustomed to pervade the whole body, exempting no member of it.

02:48
From their inroads, so this state of discord, this almost complete estrangement of one from another has invaded your entire body politic. Now I want to point out a couple of things here.

03:00
First of all, we're talking about a city, not a church. That Christ system is not a Christian, and he's writing a little after the time of Paul. But he's talking about the city of Tarsus, which is where Paul actually came from. That's his home city. And he's saying, look, you have discord in the city, you have a strange man in the city and that is that is like a disease.

03:21
Which is pervading the whole body.

03:24
So the way he thought about the city is that the city was like a a human body, and that disagreement, dissension, division is like a disease spreading in the body. We find something similar in Alias Aristides. Oration, 23, he says those cities are best inhabited, which know how to think.

03:44
Harmoniously. That's an important word everywhere. Faction is a terrible, disruptive thing and like consumption.

03:53
For having fastened itself to the body politic, it drains off, sucks out, and depletes all its strength and does not cease until it has entirely worn it away. Using the sick themselves as a means for their own destruction. So once again we see this idea of a body we're comparing a.

04:13
Group of people.

04:14
To the human body that in this case is sick because there's so much fighting inside the group.

04:22
Dale Martin, whose book is really just about this whole subject. It's called the Corinthian body. He says within deliberative rhetoric that is rhetoric urging a political body towards some course of action. A popular topic was Concord or Unity. Indeed, hominoidea speeches, as they were known in Greek, became practically a genre.

04:44
Unto themselves, with predictable patterns, set cliches and examples, and an identifiable ideology.

04:52
The ideological purpose of homonymous speeches was to mitigate conflict by reaffirming and solidifying the hierarchy of society. To this end, certain topoi set examples recur with tiresome regularity. A favorite device is to show how the political hierarchy of the city.

05:11
Mirrors the harmonious hierarchy of the cause.

05:14
Cosmos, the Cosmos works well because each cosmic entity knows its place in the cosmic body, so these are standard speeches that people would make when they're there's fighting, and there's factions and there's divisiveness. They make these speeches, called home, annoying speeches or concord speeches.

05:34
And in these speeches, they'd be like, look, we really just need to respect the hierarchy that, you know, that people of higher status than you really should be respected and that people lower than you really should stay in their place. And. And this whole idea of hierarchy.

05:50
That's the standard way that these speeches go.

05:53
Which is interesting and as you'll see in just a moment, first credit is 110, Paul says. Now I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you be in agreement, that there be no divisions among you, but that you be knit together in the same mind and the same purpose. So this is something that, Paul.

06:14
Very much wanted for the Corinthian Christians is that they would have oneness, unity and that they would be part of this body of Christ, with Christ as the head, and then they're the body and not be fighting with each other.

06:28
It's not until chapter 12 that we get this really elaborate, detailed body metaphor. This analogy of the body where he starts talking about body parts in like a humorous way, you know, like the eye and the ear and the hand and the foot in particular.

06:44
What he does with it is something so different.

06:47
Went.

06:48
Than what the standard thing was to do with the body analogy. Alright, first Corinthians, chapter 12, verse 14. Let's take a look at what he does, he says. Indeed, the body does not consist of 1 member, but of many. If the foot would say because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body.

07:08
That would not make it any less a part of the body, and if the ear would say because I am not an I, I do not belong to the body, that would not make it any less a part of the body. If the whole body were an I, where would the hearing be? If the whole body were hearing, where would the sense of smell be?

07:27
But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them as he chose.

07:35
If all were a single member, where would the body be? As it is, there are many Members, yet one body. The I cannot say to the hand, I have no need of you nor again the head to the feet. I have no need of you. On the contrary, the members of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable. This is really.

07:56
Really different what he does.

07:58
The members of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable. Those members of the body that we think less honorable. We clothe with greater honor and are less respectable. Members are treated with greater respect, whereas our more respectable Members do not need this. But God has so arranged the body.

08:17
Giving the greater honor to the inferior member.

08:22
That there may be no dissension within the body, but the Members may have the same care for one another. There is a fresh idea you Corinthians care for one another. If one member suffers, all suffer together with it. If one member is honored, all rejoice together with it. Now you are the body of Christ and individually.

08:43
Members of it.

08:45
Alright.

08:45
11 quick background point before we go to more depth on what we just read here.

08:52
As it turns out, there was a temple in Corinth called the Asclepios where they had body parts on display. They were made of clay. They weren't actual human body parts. OK, but I've showed you pictures of these before and basically you would go to this temple and you would make a little clay image or or figurine.

09:12
Of your whatever it is you were looking for healing.

09:16
So if you had a hand, you would make a little clay hand and leave it there behind, and then the priest at this temple would hang it from the walls or from the ceiling. And then the idea was that God would heal you. You know, I don't know if that ever actually happened or not, but we do have these clay body parts, and it's likely that Paul would have gone.

09:36
Through that area, not necessarily into the temple complex itself, but like and have seen these body parts, and this could have been what triggered his mind to think of the hand and the foot and the eye and the ear in this first Corinthians, chapter 12.

09:50
Jerome Murphy O'Connor writes. Paul would have seen the dismembered limbs displayed in the asclepios as symbols of everything that Christians should not be dead, divided, unloving and unloved. From this, it would have been an easy step to the contrasting image of the whole body.

10:10
In which the distinctive identity of each of the members is rooted in a shared life, so that I just thought was interesting little tidbit like he actually could have derived this analogy from seeing these body parts in this in this temple area. We don't really know if that happened or not, but I could tell you this.

10:27
What he does with his body analogy is totally radical.

10:32
Ben Witherington writes in Paul's time, many in Corinth were already suffering from a self-made person escapes humble origin syndrome. OK, what what he's saying there is that in Corinth you wanted to improve your status. You were competitive. You wanted to set yourself apart, you wanted to make money.

10:53
You wanted to get the better option in life.

10:57
It was a competitive metropolis, very international, very sophisticated, and people were competing with each other a lot.

11:08
In comes Christianity.

11:10
In Christianity, the rules are different.

11:13
Anybody can be a Christian that's not first class Christian, second class Christians, third class Christians. We're all Christians. Whether you're super rich or dirt poor, whether you're a slave, we're all Christians.

11:26
It doesn't matter if you're Jewish. Doesn't matter if you're Greek, doesn't matter if you're from Africa. It doesn't matter if you're from Asia.

11:32
You. Well, it's OK.

11:34
That was radical. That was new. Nobody was doing diversity in the 1st century, OK, we were doing it and we were doing it well. We were doing it in community and people saw an opportunity with these spiritual gifts in particular and as well as with wisdom and knowledge to apply what they were really looking for, which.

11:53
Was a boost.

11:55
Some sort of way to look good, some sort of way to elevate their status, and they're using the gifts of spirit to do that.

12:03
And what Paul is saying to them.

12:06
Is to take the standard way of thinking about the body as a.

12:10
Group of people.

12:12
And flip it on his head. When people made these speeches in the past, the point of the speech was, and that's why the people that are powerful are in power and you should respect them. And that's why the slaves are slaves and you should just stay in that place and never revolt or never disobey. Right? That's how those speeches go. And Paul does the exact opposite.

12:32
He tells the people in high status.

12:35
To show honor to those who need the honor, and he says nobody needs to show. You honor, cause you already have honor. What?

12:43
I think it must have like, maybe people's mouths were open. Like, what did you just say? Let's read that again. I bet even in the first time they're like, let's read it again. Let's did.

12:52
I hear that right. Let's do it again.

12:55
Dale Martin writes it seems clear that for both Paul and the Strong Corinth, speaking in tongues is a high status activity and its status significance, as we'll see, is precisely what, in Paul's opinion, makes it problematic in the Corinthian church. Many modern scholars have assumed.

13:16
Like most modern intellectuals that speaking in tongues is an activity of uneducated marginal.

13:23
People, this is kind of like a modern prejudice that just doesn't fit with the historical record in the ancient world to be blessed with divine speech was just like a dream come true. It was super cool. Everybody wanted to do it, and if you could do it, you wanted to brag about the fact that you could do it because it was something to be so proud of.

13:47
Whereas today in our world today, speaking in tongues is often associated with oh, they're, they're just so gullible. They're so naive. This kind of patronizing minds.

13:56
That.

13:56
That's not their world. Their world is like, yo, this is really interesting. And I can you mind if I come?

14:03
And listen.

14:04
Right. And so it would actually be in a sense, evangelistic for people to hear this sort of thing to some degree. OK, we're going to get into the downside of it, where it's also possible people that could.

14:15
Just think you're crazy.

14:17
Dale Martin goes on to say in 13-4, Paul again uses the term puffed up, suggesting that it is the wise or strong in Corinth who value too much. In Paul's opinion, both knowledge and the esoteric language of the angels. He himself normally places a high status valuation on speaking in tongues. He claims the gift for himself.

14:38
Even going so far as to claim a greater share of it than any of the Corinthians.

14:43
In 14, two, Paul says that the person who speaks in tongues speaks not to human beings but to God. For no one hears. But in the spirit he speaks mysteries. Glossolalia is divine discourse. It deals in mysteries, which for Paul, is a highly viewed epistemological category. Epistemological has something to do with.

15:03
Knowledge. It's a it's a way of getting knowledge, getting information.

15:07
Through the spirit.

15:10
Now.

15:11
This is why in First Corinthians 12.

15:15
There are three lists of gifts or manifestations of the spirit.

15:20
And in all three of them, tongues is either last or second to last.

15:26
So first grading is 12/8 through 10. It says utterance of wisdom, utterance of knowledge, faith, gifts of healing, works of powerful deeds, prophecy, discerning of spirit, various kinds.

15:37
And then interpretation of tongues dead last.

15:42
In this second list of First Corinthians 12, verse 28, he lists out apostles, prophets, teachers, deeds of power, gifts of healing, forms of assistance, forms of leadership, and then last various kinds of tongues.

15:54
Then in verse 29 he has another list, slightly different apostles, prophets, teachers, powerful deeds, gets a feeling, speak in tongues, and interpret tongues again, last. And why is Paul putting them last over and over and over again? Is it because he doesn't like tongues? Is it because he thinks tongues are low status, low bar gullible?

16:14
I eat. No, no, no, no, no.

16:17
He says he speaks in tongues more than them all. He's into tongues. Paul is super pro tongues. His point is you guys have elevated it to the top and it should be elevated to the OR wherever the opposite elevate lowered to the bottom because.

16:34
It already has high status, it doesn't need more status.

16:38
You need to lift up the other things that are low status. That's the whole point of this body analog.

16:45
Dale Martin again says we must recognize that those who on the surface occupy positions of lower status are actually more essential than those of higher status and therefore should be accorded more honor. What?

16:59
You want me to give more honor to a slave than a wealthy homeowner?

17:07
Yeah, that's what he's saying.

17:10
Dale Martin goes on. The lower is made higher and the higher is made lower.

17:18
Paul first accepts the high status of glossolalia as a given and then questions the expected attribution of honor to those of high status.

17:28
Greater honor, he says, should be given to those normally considered to be low status.

17:35
To us, this sounds like simple just equality.

17:40
But to a person of ancient times imbued with upper class ideology, to say that a slave and a master should work in tandem, or that a patron should not expect his client to give way to him would have sounded revolutionary.

17:56
Look, I know for so many of us, we read the body analogy and 1st grade is 12. We're like oh.

18:00
Ha ha. The hand.

18:01
The foot, blah blah, blah, and we're just like, oh.

18:05
To an ancient person in the 1st century, that body illustration that Paul tells would have just been like what are you saying? Like are you are you like undermining our entire like social fabric of honor and status? And I think to that Paul's answer is, yeah.

18:23
You're doing it wrong. Everything about status that you guys think is upside down and backwards, Christ said. The first will be last, last will be first. The way up is down.

18:35
Right, that's the idea. I think that he's trying to get across to them. Alright, let's move on to chapter 13. So I think that's a big insight of chapter 12. Chapter 13 is all about love. We've read it a couple of times, but I just want to read it again. If I speak in the tongues of mortals and of angels and do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging symbol. And if I have prophetic.

18:55
Powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge. And if I have all faith so as to remove mountains, but do not have love.

19:01
Love, I am nothing if I give away all my possessions and if I hand over my body so that I may boast. But I do not have love. I gain nothing. I am nothing. I am a noisy gong or a clanging symbol without love.

19:19
You're nothing. This is a radical. I've covered this a couple sessions ago. This is a radical reconfiguration of divine speech and miraculous activity.

19:30
Because like moving a mountain obviously would be a miraculous activity, not necessarily a speech act.

19:36
Maybe it could be, but maybe not. So what you're saying is like in this kind of miraculous stuff. It's not impressive if you don't have love. It's actually nothing. This was a huge shift. It must have felt brand new to them. Your high status divine speech is nothing if you don't do it in love.

19:57
Look at verse 4. Love is patient, love is kind. Love is not envious or boastful or arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way. It is not irritable or resentful. It does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things.

20:17
Endures all things, in other words, be considerate of others. Treat others well, like in Bill and Ted's excellent adventure. Be excellent to one another. Be excellent to each other.

20:28
Right.

20:29
Care about other people, that's what he's saying to them, right? I would not have made this list.

20:36
I don't think if I said to you all right, I want you.

20:38
To write a poem about love.

20:40
I don't think you would have picked these things. You probably would have said something like kind, friendly, forgiving. You wouldn't have said these words.

20:49
Let me invert them for you. Love is impatient. Love is unkind. Love is envious and boastful and arrogant and rude. It insists on its own way. It is irritable and resentful. It rejoices in wrongdoing, but it does not rejoice in the truth. It does not bear anything, does not believe anything.

21:09
He's not hoping anything does not endure anything.

21:14
When I flip this upside down and show you the opposite, you realize how little I had to change.

21:23
Because those are actually just the words I just flipped them, right? So here's the other.

21:27
Way.

21:28
Patient and kind. OK, that's good. Those are both positive things. But then look at all these negative things. It's not this. It's not envious, it's not boastful. It's not arrogant. It's not rude. It's not insisting. It's not terrible, it's not resentful, it's not rejoicing.

21:43
You see? You see what I'm saying? Like he lists out all the things that Corinthians are doing and says love is not that.

21:51
If I say to you impatient, unkind, envious, boastful and arrogant, that's just the Corinthian church man. Like, that's what we've been reading this whole time. This is the heart of the letter. Everything has been leading to this point. First Corinthians 13. The the center of First Corinthians 13. Verses 4 through 7 is like a dagger to the heart where he's saying to them.

22:12
This is what love is. Be this way. You're the opposite. Do this instead.

22:19
Really, really cool. Really powerful. This is the heart of First Corinthians. Now we use this for weddings.

22:28
Right, this is a standard. I'm a minister, so I marry people, so I.

22:34
I see this.

22:34
A lot. I'm sure you've probably seen this before too, but first Corinthians 13 is a standard scripture to read at a wedding ceremony.

22:42
This has nothing to do with romantic love between a man and a woman.

22:48
I think it's fine. I think it's fine if weddings want to use this scripture. I think it's good for married people as well, but in its original context, what is this about? This is about people using speaking in tongues and interpretation and prophecy to make other people feel less than and to make themselves.

23:08
Superior.

23:10
That's what the context is. That's what chapter 12 is all about. That's what chapter 14 is all about. That's what the first few verses of Chapter 13 started with, and that's what we're gonna talk about right after verse 7 as well. We're gonna talk about.

23:21
Tons of prophecy.

23:22
Again, that's why I'm trying to hold this all together for you. I don't want you to have one understanding of chapter 12, and then we'll just take, like, a break over here and do 13 for a while, like a parentheses.

23:33
And then we'll come back and we'll do 4. No, I want you to hold the whole thing together. And so it's a little bit difficult, but I think you can do it.

23:41
The primary application of First Corinthians 13 of the Love chapter is Christians worshiping together.

23:49
When we gather, are we loving?

23:52
If not, regardless of our fancy projection screen, our talented musicians, our innovative technology and our skilled technical workers, and our fabulous announcers and emcees, and you know our our incredible band up here and all this other stuff.

24:12
If we're not doing it in love, it's nothing we can literally hit all of the right things to put on a great service, and it can be really impressive and people.

24:21
Be like, wow, look what you do. Oh, look.

24:23
Well, look, it's it's squeezed purple behind them, and it's not even bleeding into his blue laser. That's incredible, right? But if we're not having love, it's nothing.

24:34
We have our Holy Spirit time on Sundays, where people are able to speak in tongues, where they're able to prophecy where they're able to interpret and all these. But if we're not doing it in love, it's the same as just a loud noise.

24:48
So powerful I love this.

24:50
Going on verse 8 love never ends.

24:55
But As for prophecies, they will come to an end. As for tongues, they will cease. As for knowledge, it will come to an end, for we know in part, and we prophecy only in part. But when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. When as a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways.

25:15
For now, we see in a mere dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know. Only in part. Then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. And now faith, hope, and love abide these three the greatest of these is love, and we looked at this section last time.

25:35
When I was talking about Cessationism versus continuationism, we're not going to get into that here. I think just getting the main point this time through is good. What is the main point? All of the things that we're doing, even this stuff, that's really exciting and really impressive is partial. It's just important.

25:52
Like the fullness, we have to wait before the end to get the fullness, OK.

25:58
What that tells me is that I need to have humility.

26:03
We need to be able to say.

26:04
You know what?

26:06
Let's be willing to change. Let's be willing to learn. Let's be willing to try different things, even our best days. Still partial compared to what it will be in the end.

26:17
All right, let's dip our toes into chapter 14.

26:21
Who am I? Who am I kidding? Let's do. Let's just cover all of chapter 14. It'll it'll be it'll be fast, but it'll be a blast. OK? And I think reading it this fast, you get certain things that reading, just like a verse here and a verse there. You don't get. So that's kind of my working theory. Let's see. How does chapter 14 relate to the body illustration of Chapter 12, the love.

26:42
Home in the heart of First Corinthians 13 and now getting into Chapter 14, we get a new word and it's an important word. Let's start in verse one. It says pursue love and strive for the spiritual gifts.

26:54
And especially that you may prophecy for those who speak in a tongue do not speak to other people, but to God, for no one understands them, since they are speaking mysteries in the spirit. But those who prophecy speak to other people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. Those who speak in a tongue.

27:15
Build up themselves, but those who prophecy build.

27:19
Up the church.

27:20
Now I would like all of you to speak in tongues, but even more.

27:23
To.

27:23
Prophecy one who prophecies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues. Unless someone interprets so that the church may be built up.

27:32
Here we get this word built up, built up, built up, built up, built up, and it's actually the word for building like this. This one right here where it says up building.

27:43
That's just the word building it. It's not actually the Greek word up building. It's just the word building. And then the other ones are the verb to build, OK. And so that's what we should have as our driving force. When we think about what we do, especially in our gatherings, in our weekly gatherings is what is, is what we're going to do.

28:04
Going to build up the people that are here.

28:08
That is a driving consideration if it's going to tear people down.

28:13
Then we shouldn't do it.

28:15
Now it doesn't mean there's no space for like reproof or, you know repentance and things like that. OK, but if if, what if how we're doing things? In other words, truth is not something we change, it's something that we hold to, we discover it, and then we hold to it. Right. But I'm talking about how we do things.

28:35
If we allow fifteen people to speak in tongues and no interpretation, guess what? You're not building up the church. You're just speaking a lot of foreign languages, and nobody even knows what you're talking about, man.

28:49
So it wouldn't build up the church that would, that actually would tear it down as we're we'll see, he goes into that.

28:55
Paul wants the results of divine speech in the assembly to be building the community, not tearing it down. And it's not that tongues are bad. It's not the prophecies bad, it's that they were doing them wrong.

29:09
So this is correction for their wrong behavior and we have to recognize that when we glean out of it. Like how are we gonna learn from this for us today, we have to realize, OK, well, it has kind of a negative tone to it because they were doing it so badly.

29:24
But that doesn't mean he's against it.

29:26
Alright, chapter 14, verse 6. Now brothers and sisters. If I come to you speaking in tongues.

29:32
Things.

29:33
How will I benefit you? Unless I speak to you in some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? It is the same way with lifeless instruments that produce sounds such as the fluid or the harp. If they do not give distinct notes, how will what is being played on the flute or heart be recognized?

29:52
And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle?

29:57
So with yourselves, if in a tongue you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is being said, for you will be speaking into the air. There are doubtless many different kinds of sounds in the world, and nothing is about sound. If then I do not know the meaning of a sound, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker, a foreigner.

30:19
To me, so with yourselves, since you are striving after spiritual gifts, seek to excel in them. For here we have this edification word again. The building up of the church.

30:31
Which seek to excel in them for the building up of the church. He doesn't say stop speaking in tongues. He doesn't say stop prophesying, he says, seek to excel in them for building up the church. It's the motive. It's the target that was wrong. The target was self aggrandizement.

30:51
Rather than other regard and building up others.

30:55
Is that pretty clear?

30:57
Let me let me continue on to verse 13.

31:00
Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret. Why? Why? Therefore, therefore, OK.

31:09
Because if you just speak, then you're a foreigner to the to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me. If you're just speaking in tongues, then it's just sounds like a foreigner, right? So one who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret. That makes sense 1st 14 for if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind.

31:29
Is on.

31:30
Active what should I do then? I will pray with the spirit, but I will pray with the mind. Also I will sing praise with the spirit. I will sing praise with the mind also. Otherwise if you say a blessing with the spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say the Amen to your Thanksgiving? Since the outsider does not know what you are saying, the outsider would be like somebody just.

31:51
Comes to church.

31:53
You know in Corinth, originally somebody that brought a friend or somebody that wandered in somehow to this person's house.

32:00
Which I can't really go into, but they didn't have their the same sense of privacy we have. OK. And there was more of an open door possibility in their world. But anyhow, he's saying like, somebody comes in and he hear everybody's speaking. All these languages, they're like, I don't know what's going on verse 17 for you may give thanks well enough. But the other person is not.

32:20
Built up, I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak 5 words with my mind in order to instruct others also than 10,000 words in.

32:33
Tongue brothers and sisters do not be children in your thinking, rather be infants and evil. But in thinking be adults.

32:42
Alright, a couple.

32:43
Of quick things here in verse 13 here it says the one who speaks in the tongue should pray for the power to interpret this. This shows that the same person who speaks in tongues is also able to interpret their tongues.

32:59
In verse 14 and 15 we see that it says I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unproductive. We looked at that last time. You don't understand what you're saying when you are speaking in the tongue. If you understand what you're saying in a foreign language, when you're speaking it like my example from last time, you're not.

33:18
Speaking in tongues.

33:19
You just speak in a different language. OK? Again, the goal in verse 17 is to build up not just experience the miraculous.

33:29
And then verse 8.

33:30
Teen.

33:31
I speak in tongues more than you all, and he doesn't just say that as a as a brag. He's like I thank.

33:37
Like he's genuinely happy that he's such a serious tongue speaker, and obviously this must be in private because he's talking about in the church he'd rather prophecy.

33:47
Although maybe he did interpret at times, you know, he doesn't say one way or the other. Alright, verse 21 in the law it is written and this is actually one of the hardest.

33:55
Parts of Chapter 14 so.

33:57
I'm going to take a stab at it. Verse 21 in the law. It is written by people of strange tongues and by the lips of.

34:03
Foreigners, there's that.

34:04
Word again, I will speak to this people. Yet even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.

34:11
This right here is actually a quotation from Isaiah.

34:16
Tongues verse 22 tongues, then, are a sign not for believers, but for unbelievers, while prophecy is not for unbelievers but for believers. If therefore the entire church comes together.

34:29
And all speak in tongues and outsiders are unbelievers. Enter, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

34:36
But if all prophecy in an unbeliever or outsider who enters is reproved by all and called to account by all after the secrets of the unbelievers heart are disclosed, that person will bow down before God and worship. Declaring God is really among you.

34:53
Alright, let's come back to this quote. This is talking about judgment in its original context. Isaiah was talking to Israel and Israel was being disobedient. They were not listening to the Prophet and they were not obeying what God said was right.

35:09
So Isaiah said to them by people of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners. I will speak to this people. What he's actually talking about is bringing in an invasion army from another country. Well, nation called Assyria to attack Israel.

35:26
And the idea is that the Israelites, who are God's people, they are supposed to be believers. They're not believing Isaiah's message.

35:34
So tongues are coming, and tongues are coming as a judgment, and it's not speaking in tongues. It's just like the language of the Syrians. But to them it's a foreign language. So it's like the kind of like a close analogy to what he's talking about in the church services. Anthony Thistleton explains this very well, he says.

35:53
Tongue speaking in public worship is inappropriate in the 1st place because it places many of God's own people. In this situation of feeling like foreigners in a foreign land and not at home in their own home.

36:07
Second tongue speaking will not bring the message of the Gospel of Christ Home to unbelievers. Unbelievers do not produce prophetic speech which communicates gospel truth. Hence, on one side, prophetic speech characterizes the believing church at worship. Tongues on the other side constitute negative signs.

36:28
At least in public and in their effect, generating barriers and alienation inappropriate for believers.

36:35
Paul portrays speaking in tongues as a sign which inexpert believers, rightly or wrongly, associate with and interpret as Pagan mania, and thereby are mania in English and thereby are pushed yet further away into judgment. On the other hand, prophetic speech brings genuine conviction of truth.

36:55
And hence faith.

36:57
You have somebody speaking in tongues united.

37:01
You're basically alienating everyone else in the congregation because they don't know what you're talking about. You're making them. You're making it like you're the Assyrian, bringing the judgment of God on them. You're basically treating them like an unbeliever, and these people are supposed to be believers, so don't do that. I think that's pretty much what he's saying here. I'm not 100% convinced, but.

37:21
That's the best I got for now, and so the idea once again is no uninterpreted tongues in the congregational setting. You have to interpret, or somebody else can interpret for you. As we see in the next.

37:32
Example Thomas Shriner says judgment of course is not the only function of tongues since interpreted tongues also edify the church. And I also showed you that tongues build up the speaker and they give praise and thanks to God. So those are both. In Chapter 14 we already read going on to verse 26 what should be done then my brothers and sisters, when you come together.

37:56
Each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Look at that list, huh?

38:03
A him, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue and an interpretation must have been fun. Going to church with.

38:09
These.

38:09
People, everybody's bringing something to the table. Oh, I got a hymn today. Ohh. I got a tongue. Oh, that's great, because I got an interpretation, right? Other ones got a prophecy or a lesson. Right. Here's what Paul doesn't say.

38:23
You guys are all idiots. You're not trained at the seminary. You have to let the professionals do it. He doesn't say that.

38:31
He doesn't say ohh only the ordained clergy are qualified to speak on behalf of God. He doesn't say that and he could have said that because that's how the Israelite worship and the temple worked. It was all coordinated, all led by the priests.

38:48
The Levites and the priests. He doesn't set a separate group of Christians above everyone else. He doesn't do that.

38:56
What does he say? Let all things be done for big surprise. Building up. I mean, he really could not have said this word more than he says it in this chapter. This is the build up chapter. Chapter 12 is the body chapter.

39:13
Chapter 13 is the love chapter. Chapter 14 is the build up chapter. It's all really just different angles of the same thing. Be considerate for each other, verse 27 if anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be only two or at most 3, and each in turn and let one interpret. See now this is where it sounds the other way.

39:34
In verse 13, it sounded like the same person who speaks the tongue should pray that that same person should interpret. Here it says one or two at most 3 and then let one interpret sounds like somebody else interpreting. I think it can work either way. The spirit of God does not need to get put in a box.

39:52
You know what I'm saying? But be that as it may.

39:56
Uninterpreted tongues should not be allowed in the service, so I think as a practical consideration, it makes sense just to have the same person interpret so that we know ahead of time that we're not going to have uninterpreted tongues in the service, which is the thing we're really.

40:11
Trying to avoid.

40:12
So I think that's just a practical consideration, but.

40:15
It could be.

40:16
Different ways of doing it verse 28, but if there is no one to interpret, let them be silent in church and speak to themselves and to God. Let two or three prophets speak and let the others weigh what is said. If someone sitting receives A revelation, let the first person be silent, for you can all prophecy 1 by 1.

40:37
So that all may learn and all be encouraged.

40:40
And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets, for God is a God, not of disorder, but of peace, as in all the churches of the Saints. So.

40:50
Verse 27 says we limit.

40:54
The tongue speakers to two or at most three. I think that's pretty practical for them and also for now and then.

41:02
In verse 28 it says people can speak in tongues quietly in the assembly if they don't interpret or somebody else doesn't interpret. OK, you can still speak in tongues in the assembly, just do it to yourselves and to God.

41:17
And verse 29 prophecy is limited to two or three and really the main concern here is that people are not speaking over each other. We don't want to have this person speaking to us. That person prop signing the other person is singing a song all at the same time. That's not decently.

41:37
And in order that's.

41:40
Out of order. That's chaos, right?

41:46
The other point I wanted to bring up was this business about let the others weigh what is said.

41:52
This is something important.

41:54
This is something important.

41:56
You don't have permission to shut off your brain when?

41:59
You go to church.

42:01
If you want to shut off your brain, do it while you watch Netflix. OK, but when you come to church.

42:07
When you come.

42:08
It hurts. Keep the brain functioning, OK, because not every prophet who speaks is speaking for God. There is such a thing as false prophecy and.

42:19
He's recognizing that here. He's like, alright, so we're gonna have two or three prophets speak and let the others judge. Let them weigh what is said. How are you gonna do that? You compare it to what the Bible says. The Bible is our standard. If somebody gets up and prophesied, it says it's OK to get drunk now. Thus says the Lord. Guess what?

42:37
They're a false prophet we know from.

42:40
Dozens of scriptures that that's not OK.

42:43
If somebody says, oh, you can commit adultery on your on your spouse, well, that's a false prophet, right? These are very obvious examples, but look, Paul is saying to the Corinthians, he's like, look, let the others weigh what is said. And if someone's sitting receives, well, you know, going to that in a second. But, you know, this is an important thing to consider. Verse 32.

43:03
The spirit of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

43:07
Unbelievable. Unbelievable statement considering the frenzied mayhem of the possessed Oracle who is just foaming at the mouth and making.

43:20
All these weird.

43:21
Jerks with their bodies. You know, doing all this weird stuff, what Paul says is no, no, no, no, no, no.

43:27
The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. And how does he apply that? He says look.

43:33
If you're up there prophesying and you notice that somebody else has just received a revelation from God.

43:42
You sit down.

43:44
You stop prophesying. You should let the other person go.

43:48
Which means that even while somebody's prophesying, he expects him to be aware enough of what other people in the room are doing to recognize that somebody else is getting a word from the Lord. And to be considerate instead of going on and on and on. Sit down. Let the other person go.

44:05
The the spirits of the prophets are subject.

44:08
To the prophets.

44:11
Once again, I marvel at how fresh and incredible it is to see love applied to divine speech, and then verse 33. I've already said this, but I'll say it again. God is not a God of disorder, but of peace.

44:25
This is the general vibe of the gathering. It's not chaos. It's not people talking over each other. It's order and peace, but it is still exciting. It's not like, totally lame. Alright. You should have fell asleep during the Holy Spirit time in church. There should be so sort of like, oh, what's what's going to happen next? Because look, I'm the lead pastor.

44:46
I don't even know what they're going to say.

44:49
And I get why people don't allow this in church. Because you can't control it.

44:55
It is risky. It is scary. I'll just speak for myself as a leader. It is risky. It is scary. Like I don't know what they're going to say.

45:03
But that's what's exciting about it too. We're letting the spirit of God move and letting God's spirit speak through people, whether male or female, different races, different ages, different statuses, single married.

45:18
Whatever you know.

45:20
It's up to us as leaders, it's up to God who's inspiring these.

45:25
All right. The next verse is we've already talked about before, but I'll just read it to you. It says verse 34 women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate as the law also says, if there is something they want to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church or did the word of God.

45:44
Originate from you? Or are you the only ones it has reached? I'm not going to go into this here. I've covered this in #12 women in First Corinthians.

45:54
I'll just say that I think this is dealing with the specific situation where the wives were asking their husbands questions during the sermon time of the service. We know that they were speaking at other times too, because Paul lays out rules for how women should exercise divine speech, praying and prophesying with their heads covered, according to.

46:15
Chapter 11. So we know that they participated in the Holy Spirit time, but my best guess is that during the sermon time when the scriptures were being explained or read aloud publicly, because most people couldn't read and you had to just have somebody read it out loud that the women were asking questions of their husbands, that it was causing disruption.

46:34
So I think that's probably what was going on there. Moving on to verse 37, it says anyone who claims to be a prophet or spiritual must acknowledge that what I am writing to you is a command of the Lord. Anyone who does not recognize this is not to be recognized. So my brothers and sisters strive to. Here's his his.

46:54
Final comments strive to prophecy and do not forbid speaking in tongues. He's not getting rid of it, but all things should be done decently and in order. So let's talk about application.

47:10
I talked about application last time. I want to talk about application again, just briefly as we conclude here. Once again, Anthony Thistleton and his masterful first Corinthians commentary. Probably my favorite commentary on 1st Corinthians. He says Paul now makes utterly explicit what had lain implicitly in his earlier rhetoric. Not only does the rhetoric of the body.

47:31
Reassure those with supposedly inferior or dispensable gifts that they do indeed belong fully to the body as essential limbs and organs. But this rhetoric now explicitly.

47:42
Dukes, those who think they and their superior gifts are self-sufficient for.

47:47
The whole body.

47:49
Or that others are scarcely authentic parts of the body, as they themselves are. It is hardly mere speculation to imagine that those who perceive themselves as possessing the high status gifts of knowledge.

48:02
And wisdom or of power to heal, or to speak in tongues, could be tempted to think of themselves as the inner circle on whom the identity and function of the church really dependent.

48:15
In modern times, the tendency to select either one or more of the gifts in 12/8 to 10 or to interpret the baptism by or in the spirit in 12/13 as the sign of advanced status comes perilously near to the Corinthian heresy which Paul explicitly attacks. So in other words, don't think you're better than other people because.

48:35
You speak in tongues because you are able to heal people. You pray for them, they get healed, whereas other people pray for them. Nothing happens. You have this gift.

48:43
Of healing.

48:45
Don't think you're better than others because they you know your prayers. God answers your prayers. They don't. The God doesn't answer their prayers as much. I think God answers everyone's prayers just for the record, but it there is something about this gifts of healing to be considered or or even us as a community. We we as a community can say Oh well, we at least allow the the the gifts of the spirit in our Sunday services.

49:06
And you know you over hear this other denomination. You guys don't even you.

49:09
Know we're we're better than you.

49:12
No, you missed it. You missed it. It was.

49:14
Right here and and you just missed it, right? The point is there not to think you're superior because of Holy Spirit experiences or divine speech that God graces you with.

49:27
But in much of Christianity Today, actually the opposite is the problem.

49:33
Into right rights.

49:35
Polls overriding concern is for order peace and mutual upbuilding when the congregation comes together for worship rather than for chaos, interruption and dissension.

49:46
Of course, there are many churches today where there is so much order and peace that Paul might have wondered if everyone had gone to sleep.

49:56
So don't quench the spirit.

49:58
Don't quench the spirit. Invite God's spirit into your church services. Set aside time for the unpredictable.

50:05
Alright, that's enough. Talking about speaking in tongues and prophecy. Of course there's tons more we could say. All kinds of modern studies and all kinds of other stuff to get into, but this is not really a class on speaking in tongues. This is a class on 1st Corinthians in context, and so next time we're actually going to look at resurrection.

50:25
And the end. What? What? What does first premise tell us about the end of the world? That's a really interesting topic as we continue in our class. 1st Corinthians in context.

50:38
Well, that brings this presentation to a close. What did you think? Come on over to restitutio.org and find Episode 599, love and edification in the assembly and leave your feedback there on last week's episode about speaking in tongues. MJ.

50:54
2022 wrote in on YouTube saying it's been asserted that the ecstatic speech of the Montanists, a later Christian sect akin to modern Pentecostals, was an example of glossolalia. This has LED several scholars to suggest that the montanists may have edited parts of the Testament of Joe.

51:11
Cube adding the sections of tongues speaking. Yes, MJ, that is true that occasionally scholars allege that the Montanists edited or corrupted the testament of Joe. I just would like to see.

51:25
Some.

51:26
Proof. I would like to see some evidence, something other than just speculation, because let's face it.

51:32
If you just speculate, then that doesn't really have any authority behind it other than just your opinion.

51:40
I tend to look at the testament of job and the Apocalypse of Zephaniah as quite Jewish documents, they don't seem Christian to.

51:50
Whether they were written at the time of the 1st century, when the New Testament was being written or afterwards, or maybe even before, I don't think it's as likely that they were before. But like they, they don't really seem to me to be edited by monotonous, right? So if you are interested in montanism and the montanist, I did a whole.

52:09
Episode on that a while ago it was actually episode 500 and it was part 18 of my early church history class called the Gifts of the Spirit in early Christianity, where I talked about Montanus and Priscilla and Maxima.

52:26
And this whole new prophecy movement. And if you really are interested in that movement, I would recommend getting the book profits and gravestones by William Tabernae, who really analyzes the whole movement at great length.

52:42
And and to be honest, it's really hard to figure out what the montanists were doing. The sources I've seen from like Eusebius, he quotes a guy named Gaius in his church history book.

52:53
It you know, they're so antagonistic. They're so hostile to the montanists that it sounds like they're just ridiculing them and speaking gibberish. But like, that's the sort of thing you would say if they were legitimately speaking in tongues. And the guy who was criticizing them was underexposed to speaking in tongues. So.

53:13
I'm I'm not entirely sure what to say about the montanist. What was it? Genuine divine speech? Or was it just sort of like ecstatic gibberish?

53:22
I used the example last.

53:23
Week of pop, pop, pop, pop.

53:25
Pop, pop. You know, just saying a syllable over and over again, or just free vocalizing. Coming up with a bunch of random syllables that don't actually make any sense in any language is that what's going on, or were they actually just speaking in tongues and they were being persecuted for it? So I don't know, but that's definitely an interesting thought.

53:43
Got another comment in on Episode 580, which was my presentation entitled an Honest evaluation of the evidence for the deity of Christ and a couple of people didn't like how I used the word deity there. Somebody named John wrote in Sean. I always enjoy your presentations.

54:04
I am a recent convert to Biblical Unitarianism based largely on your talks, among other readings. During my search for.

54:11
Truth. You made the statement that you do not believe in the deity of Christ. May I suggest you reconsider that position? Below is the opening paragraph, and he cites a paragraph from a book that he has basically saying that the word deity can just mean divine as in of, from or like God.

54:31
Not necessarily. God. And then somebody else named Peter commented off of that and he wrote. That was my first question as well. John, what is the definition of the word deedy I land close to where you do about.

54:44
Of and then he cites a website, calledvocabulary.com, which defines the word deity as a supernatural being like a God or goddess. Both lower case there that is worshipped by people who believe it controls or exerts force over some aspect of the world.

55:02
So Peter continues using this definition. There are pantheon of gods, mostly bad Jesus could be described as being elevated to deity after the cross by his father. Let me pause you there.

55:15
This was actually a controversy in I think if I don't have this wrong 2nd century, or perhaps the 3rd century, but very early on you Seabus mentions this in his church history book once again that the early dynamic monarchianism the earliest biblical Unitarians that we have records of outside the Bible, of course.

55:35
Had this dispute among them where some of them were, saying that Jesus became a God after his ascension into heaven and others were saying that he was still a man.

55:46
And so this is a very old internal argument among biblical Unitarians going back hundreds and hundreds of years. Peter goes on to say Jesus is still not Almighty God. He is a human and will always be in submission to his father. I agree 100% that Jesus never called himself God, both before and after the cross. He is always the son of God, and deference was father.

56:09
And then he says I am challenging the definition of deity. It is not limited to the only true almighty God the father. It just means having significant power and influence over a significant number of people. So he's suggesting that it's fine for biblical Unitarians to say.

56:26
Jesus is deity and that there's no problem with that, and I think both of these gentlemen are somewhat critical of me denying the deity of Christ in this presentation. Once again, the presentation is called an honest evaluation of the evidence for the deity of Christ. So I looked at the evidence for the deity of Christ.

56:48
And I said that I don't think that that evidence really added up.

56:52
Very well to establishing the deity of Christ, and they're saying, well, hold on. You still should recognize that in another sense, not in a Trinitarian sense, but in another sense of him being powerful and so forth that he is deity. I have a couple of responses to this. First of all, I think if we were having this conversation in the Mediterranean.

57:13
World in the first or second centuries of the Christian.

57:17
I would have no problem with this definition. I think it was very common for people to call beings like Jesus who live in heaven. God, even if they weren't eternal, even if they weren't all powerful, even if they hadn't created the universe.

57:34
But I don't think that it's very helpful to do that today. And I'll just kind of explain myself a little bit if you are curious about how ancient people thought about.

57:46
And humans who ascend into heaven, or gods who come down and become humans and all that sort of thing outside of the Bible, just in the general culture of the 1st century.

57:58
Take a look at podcast 521. Just you can Scroll down to that in your podcast app or search it online somehow, but it's called the deity of Christ from a Greco-roman perspective, this is a presentation I gave.

58:10
Where I just went through the evidence. And if you look at the article, I mean, there's a YouTube video, there's an audio, but there's also like, a properly written a scholarly article with a bazillion footnotes. And in there, you will be able to see much more than I actually gave in the presentation. You'll be able to see all the evidence, like directly quoting all the primary sources.

58:31
Of what they were saying about different kinds of.

58:34
Of people. So you have miracle workers, you have heroes. You have gods that came down and humans that ascended. You have deified rulers. And so basically you have all these different categories. And then what you do is you look at the story of Jesus and see it with Greco-roman eyes. And you're like, Oh my goodness.

58:55
Everything Jesus did from his miraculous conception to his miracles and healing to his transfiguration, to his resurrection and ascension, stress on Ascension because they didn't really have resurrection so much.

59:05
All of these things would trigger them to say Jesus is a God. Lowercase G God Jesus is divine, or Jesus is deity and I'm totally fine with that like they had a category for what they would describe as a human being who has been elevated to live in heaven and.

59:25
Immortalized to never die again, that's just what they would call a.

59:28
God and for Greco one person called Jesus God. In that sense. I think it's fine. However, in our sense today, if I come out with a presentation that says an honest evaluation of the evidence for the deity of Christ and I, can I go through the evidence and I agree with the claim.

59:49
That Jesus is deity, everyone is going to think that. What I mean by that is that Jesus is capital G God in the same sense that the father is God, but as a different person because.

1:00:02
The Trinity idea of the deity of Christ is the majority idea of the deity of Christ, and whoever has the majority usage gets to have definition. One in the dictionary, and I realize you pointed out dictionaries that don't that don't define it that way, and then in a broad sense, of course that's that's right. But when you're in.

1:00:22
The apologetic.

1:00:23
Space and in the space where I am, and you're interacting with people who are coming from a Trinitarian or a modalist perspective. For me to say I believe in the deity of Christ. They're just going to understand that as me saying I believe in the Trinity or I believe in the deity of Christ in the sense that they believe in the deity of Christ. And I just don't want there to be more confusion.

1:00:45
And muddying the waters, of course, I could say I believe Jesus.

1:00:48
Is God if I define what I mean by that, that he represents God and that he speaks for God and that God so and dwelled him, and he was so transparent to the will of God that seeing Jesus is seeing God? OK, yes, of course. But I'm not trying to fly under the radar. I am out of the I'm so far out of the closet.

1:01:09
That you can't. You can't look me up and not find.

1:01:13
Five major problems with the Trinity video with however many 100,000 views at this point. Like there's no point in me being coy here like, this is where I'm coming from. I believe that Jesus is a human Messiah. I'm very proud of Jesus for being the man the last Adam.

1:01:34
The quintessential Israelite who got everything right, where every one of us before him have failed, and even everyone after him has failed, that he is our representative human being, very proud of Jesus for that.

1:01:50
But he's not God. He's not God in the sense that he doesn't have any eternal nature that is of the same substance as the father. He's not God in the sense that he is the father. He has the same mind or will as the father. No, he has a different will, his different mind that then conforms to the father. Jesus said in the garden.

1:02:10
Not my will, but yours be done. That's only remarkable if he has it. If he has a different will than the father, if his will is really the same as the father, he's just a bad communicator. And I'm not gonna say.

1:02:21
That I think Jesus is an excellent communicator. I think he taught well. I think people understood what he was saying, especially his disciples, even though it might have been confusing to outsiders. And I think that was by design. But to his insiders and his disciples, I think he was a master teacher and that we can learn and take his words straightforwardly as they're reported to us in the Gospels.

1:02:43
So that's just a couple of thoughts on that subject. Again, if you're enjoying this class on 1st Corinthians in context, please share this episode with others. If you are an Apple Podcast user, please rate and review restitutio on Apple Podcast.

1:03:00
Yes. And if you'd like to contribute, that would be awesome too. You can donate at restitutio.org. OK, catch you next week where we will get into the subject of resurrection. And considering the background information that will help us understand why Paul's spent was over 50 versus arguing for the resurrection of Christ.

1:03:20
And then our ultimate resurrection in the end. And so we'll do that next week. Thanks, everybody. I'll see you then. And remember the truth.

1:03:29
Has nothing to fear.