This is the transcript of Restitutio episode 598: 1 Corinthians in Context 15 - Speaking in Tongues with Sean Finnegan

This transcript was auto-generated and only approximates the contents of this episode.

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598 1 Corinthians 15.mp3

Transcript

00:00
Hey there, I'm Sean Finnegan. And you are listening to restitutio, a podcast that seeks to recover authentic Christianity and live it out today.

00:12
Last time we looked at how Greco-roman people talked about inspired speech, today we turned to 1st Corinthians and the Book of Acts to focus on speaking in tongues. We'll consider the idea that tongues are angelic languages.

00:26
Is how tongues relates to prayer and how tongues differs from ecstatic speech. Lastly, we'll dip our toes into the debate over whether tongues ceased with the apostles or not, whether you personally speak in tongues or not. I think you'll find the information in this episode helpful here now is Episode 598 first.

00:46
Where the is in contacts Part 15, speaking in tongues.

00:58
I'd like to start in Chapter 12, verse 7, which says to each is given the manifestation of the spirit for the common good.

01:09
And then skip down to verse 10 to another. The working of powerful deeds to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits to another. Various kinds of tongues to another. The interpretation of tongues. So these are verses that we had looked at previously. And typically what I like to do is read for you a couple of verses.

01:30
Out of first grade.

01:31
And then spend a great deal of time looking at background information that parallels or contrasts with what we read. However, today, there's not much background information for us to consider.

01:46
Just a little bit.

01:48
I would say this from what I could tell.

01:51
No one in chorus or in Greco-roman religions spoken tongues outside of the Christians.

02:00
So we have looked at divine speech in our last session, we looked at divine speech excessively exhaustively. We looked at the Corey Bantik dancers who were male dancers that sometimes got so carried away they castrated themselves. I mean, that's that's some serious spiritual activity.

02:19
I don't know why that I'm laughing. That's.

02:20
Not funny, it's.

02:21
It's sad, I think, but then you had the bacpac female revelers who would have these inspired times with the God Dionysus. We looked at the Oracle and the Sybil, which are prophets or prophetesses, usually female.

02:39
And the closest we could find, and we ended with this last time, was lukins's Civil War. This is what Lukin says, writing in about 60 AD. So right around the same time, within 10 years of Paul to the Corinthians. This is what we read when she found it first, the wild frenzy overflowed through her foaming.

02:59
Lips. She groaned and uttered loud, inarticulate cries with panting breaths next to dismal wailing filled the vast caves. And at last, when she was mastered, came the sound of articulate speech.

03:13
Roman thou shalt have no part in the mighty ordeal, and so on. Then Apollo closed up her throat and cut short her tail.

03:23
That's about the closest I could find to speaking in tongues, and I think you all have to agree this is not speaking in tongues. First of all, it's not speaking a foreign language.

03:33
Second of all, all this business beforehand, with the groaning and the inarticulate cries and the panting and the wailing, that's not speaking. I mean, it is speech in a sense, but it's not speaking words. And so I don't think it really gives us a good parallel.

03:52
Or speaking in tongues, I just think.

03:56
Now some have suggested that the magical papyri are a good analogy for this.

04:03
By magical papyrus, papyrus is just like Egyptian paper. Old paper made from the papyrus plant, and we have all these magical spells and incantations written out that have survived, and there's a a book of them.

04:19
That I was able to find online for free is that Nice? Sometimes if the book's old enough, you can. You can find it for free. It's out of copyright. Anyhow, here is papyri Griffey magic eye number one out of the book lines 27 to 29. This is what we read and take the milk with the honey.

04:39
You drink it before the rising of the sun and there will be something divine in your heart and take the Falcon, set it up as a statue in a shrine made of juniper wood.

04:50
And after you have crowned the shrine itself, make an offering of non animal foods and have on hand some old wine before you recline, speak directly to the bird itself after you have made sacrifice to it, as you usually do and say the prescribed spell now.

05:09
For the record, I don't know.

05:10
How to pronounce this? But I'm just gonna give it a shot. Alright, so please be be gracious.

05:17
I I owe you.

05:23
And then it says come to me, good husband. Men good. Damon Harpon, Kofi Britain. Sifri brisket. Alma Azer krifi.

05:36
Moo ma off. Come to me, O holy Orion.

05:41
Closest thing to speaking at times I could find in their world was these kinds of spells where they're like saying.

05:51
Words that don't correspond to a language. Now I want to read to you just a couple of quotes by experts. This is a guy named Christopher Forbes, and he had written his PhD dissertation on this subject. He scoured all the Greco-roman literature.

06:12
On speaking in tongues, prophecy inspired speech and this is his conclusion. He.

06:17
Says no convincing parallels whatsoever have been found within the traditions of Greco-roman religion, as they were known in the environment of the New Testament, whether it be at the level of terminology, phenomena, or concept, revelatory speech in those periods was believed to take an archaic poetic form.

06:38
Not as I have shown a form analogous to foreign languages.

06:42
The interpretation that some oracles were believed to need was at the level of metaphor and imagery, not the linguistic level. So he's talking about all the different stuff we looked at last time, and he's basically saying that, look, there are no good parallels. Then I want to quote to you Craig Keener, who's masterful commentary on the.

07:03
Book of acts.

07:04
4 volumes, thousands of pages. Masterpiece. He talks about the magic papyri in particular, which I just read you. So anyhow, Keener writes the Magic Papyri may offer the most concrete parallels for unintelligible speech.

07:18
Yet the strings of nonsense syllables found in magical papyri are mostly from the 3rd century or later. This is an important point. Christianity is in the 1st century. He goes on more decisively. They are incantations and invocations not understood as genuine language, not revelatory.

07:40
And not inviting interpretation.

07:43
So first of all, these magical pirate are later speaking in tongues for Christian starts in the 1st century and second of all, the use is different. The function of the words is different, he continues.

07:59
Appeal to gnostic and monotonous tongues would be anachronistic, but there are no clear parallels there anyway. Greco-roman religion thus offers no sufficient explanation for tongues as a phenomenon understood as inspired languages such as we find in our earliest Christian sources.

08:19
So we're dealing with the new phenomenon, which is great. So how do we get the background information for this new phenomenon? We just look at the sources, first Corinthians and the book of Acts.

08:32
There you go.

08:34
Instead of going through lots of ancient sources, we're just going to look at First Corinthians in the book of acts, and then I'll cover the question. Afterwards. I want to cover the question cause this comes up from time to time. Has speaking in tongues ceased in the 1st century after the apostles died, and I want to show you.

08:53
The historical evidence for that, or for or against, depending on which side you're on. Alright, first Corinthians, chapter 12, verse 7. I already read this to you before. I want to read it again.

09:03
And point out a few things. First of all, it says to each is given the manifestation.

09:08
Of the spirit.

09:09
Because it is given, it is a gift. Just by definition, moving on to another, the working of powerfully, and then we get down to and another various kinds of tongues.

09:19
The tongues is a gift. It's not something you learned if you went to high school and learned Spanish, and you just had you a good knack at learning languages, that's that's great. I'm happy for you. But that's not speaking in tongues. Learning a different language is just learning a different language.

09:40
Nothing necessarily miraculous about that.

09:43
Not typically. So it's something that's given. It's a gift and it says in first Corinthians 12/4. Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same spirit. And this is the word charismata and Greek, which is the word for gifts, First Corinthians 1231. But strive for the greater gifts. So chapter 12, verse 4.

10:03
Is something said right before talking about speaking in tongues and all the other manifestations, and then first Corinthians, chapter 12, verse 31 is something said right after talking about speaking in tongues. OK, so these things are gifts. They are given, they're not learned. Secondly, the word tongue just means language.

10:23
That's one of the definitions of the word tongue. So the Greek word for tongue is glosa, and glosa can mean the tongue is an organ of speech according to the Little Scott and Jones Greek English lexicon, it can mean a language, or it can mean a mouthpiece, the tongue, or.

10:38
Mouthpiece of a.

10:39
Pipe. So we've got the organ, we've got language and we've got a mouthpiece.

10:44
Those are the three definitions for the word glossa. In other words, the word glossa just does mean language. It's one of its definitions.

10:53
Thirdly.

10:54
As we saw, there's also an interpretation of tongues.

10:58
Which means that the tongue itself can't be gibberish. You can't interpret gibberish. Let's just.

11:03
Say bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop.

11:05
Bop, bop, bop. There's no translation for that. I just said the same syllable a bunch of times. Let's just like Morse code.

11:12
Holding Morse code.

11:13
To the side. OK, that's not a language.

11:17
Fourthly, someone can have various kinds of tongues or languages. Did you notice that? Here? Let me show it to you again. It says to another various kinds of tongues. So it's not that necessarily. You're always going to speak the same languages. It's possible to speak different languages.

11:37
Thomas Schreiner summarized it nicely and brought up another interesting issue. He says most scholars think that the gifts in First Corinthians 12/14 differs from what we find in acts.

11:51
Is that crazy?

11:52
I don't think that way.

11:54
Things that differs from what we find in acts, and many think that ecstatic utterances are in view.

12:01
Certainty is impossible, but I suggest that the gift is foreign languages, just as we see in acts, tongues must be in some discernible code or language, even if the language is not known to humans, since ecstatic speech cannot be interpreted or translated in as much as it consists of meaningless.

12:21
Babbling and there is no discernible code. The word glosa points to some kind of language.

12:28
Different kinds of tongues then points to the variety of languages.

12:34
Alright, so a couple of things there. He talked about ecstatic speech. That's just where you get, like, really amped up and you just sort of like start mumbling or or babbling however you want to say that.

12:46
That's something we certainly saw in the Pagan world with the other prophets and the manic frenzied, you know, entering A trance and all that kind of thing. You certainly saw that in the Pagan world.

12:58
But what Thomas Schreiner is saying, and I agree with him, is that that's not really, that doesn't really fit with the description we find in the New Testament.

13:07
There it just seems to be more languages. Not that there's no emotion necessarily, it just doesn't really comment on it one way or the other. And then the other thing is this idea of separating First Corinthians from acts, and I want to take that head on because that's important and there's lots of people that think what we saw at the day of Pentecost in the book of Acts is totally different than what Paul's talking about.

13:29
And I think they're the same and I want.

13:30
To show you why so acts, Chapter 2 says.

13:33
When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place and suddenly from heaven there came a sound like the rush of a violent wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting, divided tongues as the fire appeared among them, and the tongue rested on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages.

13:55
As the spirit gave them ability.

13:59
Now, there were devout Jews from every people under heaven living in Jerusalem, and at this sound the crowd gathered and was bewildered because each one heard them speaking in the native language of each.

14:11
Amazed and astonished, they asked are not all these who are speaking galileans? And how is it that we hear each of us in our own native language? Parthians, Medes, Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and capital?

14:25
Asia Pontus and Asia. Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Sirini and visitors from Rome, both Jews and Proselytes Cretans, and Arabs in our own languages. We hear them speaking about God's deeds of.

14:40
Power.

14:41
So we have a lot of.

14:42
Talk about language going on here.

14:45
In the original speaking in tongues incident as well as the word.

14:51
Tongue and so tongue and language is actually the same word in Greek. It's glosa and the translator is picking definition one sometimes and definition two other times depending on what they think is happening there. But the big point is that these were human languages. They literally list out all the different places.

15:11
So that it's pretty clear we're talking about languages here from different regions. They talk about their own native language repeatedly.

15:20
That also makes the the point that this was a miracle of speaking not a miracle of hearing.

15:29
It's not like they were all just speaking their own language. The apostles and these people heard it in their own languages.

15:36
In their different languages, it's that they were actually speaking these different languages. They heard them in their own languages because they were speaking in those languages and they were not translated. There was no interpretation, it was just immediately understandable by those people present.

15:53
The content of the speech was talking about gods, deeds of power. That's the inner SV. The ESD calls it, the mighty works of God.

16:03
When they heard the speaking in tongues in their own language, they they said. Ohh you're speaking about the mighty deeds of God or the mighty acts of his power. That's what you're talking about.

16:14
Let's go to the second explicit mention of tongues in acts chapter 10.

16:18
Verse 44.

16:19
While Peter was still speaking, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard the word.

16:25
The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles.

16:34
For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God.

16:38
Then we get the.

16:40
Report repeated in Chapter 11, looking back on Chapter 10.

16:46
And so when Peter is retelling this incident, this is what he says Acts 1115. And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, just as it had upon us at the beginning. And I remember the word of the Lord, how he had said John baptized with water. But you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit if then God gave them the same gifts.

17:05
That's the key part I wanted to point out the same gift that he gave us when he believed in the Lord Jesus Christ. Who was I that I could hinder God.

17:14
So when Cornelius and these Italians these Romans spoke in tongues, Peter heard it. Peter was there on the day of Pentecost. He knows what speaking in tongue sounds like.

17:26
So he hears it, he said. Ohh. That's that's the same thing I experienced. That's the same thing that happened on the day of.

17:34
God has accepted the Gentiles. I can't hold them out. I have to. I have to accept them as well as genuine brothers and sisters as genuine believers, so on to our third explicit reference in the book of acts, which is Chapter 19 Super short, it says in verse 6, when Paul had laid his hands.

17:46
Oh.

17:54
On them, the Holy Spirit came upon them and they spoke in tongues and prophesied altogether. There were about 12 of them. So in our first instance we have the apostles.

18:08
In the second incident, we have Cornelius and his household and the third incident we have these 12 people.

18:18
In the city of Ephesus, I didn't read to you from verse one where it talks about where Paul is in Chapter 19, but he's in Ephesus at this time and this is Paul who is witnessing these other guys speaking in tongues.

18:31
Now Luke uses the same language to talk about what Paul saw in Ephesus as what Peter saw in Cesaria as what the all the apostles saw in Jerusalem. Same language every time, which is why the in RSV.

18:49
Is inconsistent or why I'm upset that it's inconsistent. OK.

18:55
In the first case, the inner SV, that's the version of the Bible I'm reading from is going to use the term languages, but then it's going to call it tongues and the other two instances it's the same word glossa in each of the three cases. So translate it the same way. It's not like there's tons and tons of references in the book of acts.

19:14
To this word, you know you can. You can pretty much spot them pretty easily. So here's my point. It's Luke described Paul's missionary activity with these 12 people in Ephesus as speaking in tongues. OK.

19:28
That's what Luke is calling it and Paul in first Corinthians is talking about speaking in tongues using that same kind of terminology, same same words.

19:38
I think we're in pretty good grounds to say they're talking about the same thing, Craig Keener writes. It is virtually inconceivable that the two writers, Luke and Paul, would independently coin the same obscure phrase for two entirely different phenomena.

19:55
Now there is a big change between what we see in the book of Acts and what we see in First Corinthians in the book of Acts. Whether we're talking about Pentecost or we're talking about Cornelius's house, or we're talking about the 12 and emphasis, it's all in the context of conversion. It's all in the context of people who are.

20:15
Coming to Christ.

20:17
Faith and repentance. And then you have this speaking in tongues. Now in the case of First Corinthians.

20:26
The context is a meeting that's the worship gathering, so this is not necessarily convert. I mean they're already are converted.

20:34
And they're just doing it on a weekly basis when they gather. That's the main difference. It's the same phenomenon, but it's just a different context. OK, so let's go to 1st Corinthians Chapter 13 and take a look at a little bit more information.

20:51
Basically I just wanna cherry pick what chapter 12, chapter 13 and chapter 14 have to say about speaking in tongues, and then we'll come back and cover all three of those chapters in more detail in our next session. Alright, first Corinthians 13. One says if I speak in the tongues of humans and of angels, but do not have love.

21:12
I am a noisy gong or a clanging symbol.

21:16
This tells us that the tongues can be human or angelic. Now, Dale Martin makes a big case about this, and he his basically his point is that the emphasis here is on speaking in the tongues of angels. OK, and a lot of people have concluded the opposite, but I just want to show you a little bit.

21:36
Of background information on the language of angels or language of the gods in the Pagan world to help you think through this Dio crisis.

21:47
Who was a Pagan writing in the 90s or 90s or hundreds AD? He says. Tell me, do you think Apollo speaks Attic or Doric? Those are different dialects of Greek or that men and gods have the same language.

22:02
Yet the difference is so great that this Commander River in Troy is called Xanthus by the God.

22:10
And after telling us that the river is called, not Scamander, but Xanthus by the gods, Homer himself proceeds to call it by this latter name in his verses, as though it were his privilege not only to mix the various dialectic forms of the Greeks freely using now an alcoholic. Now Adorian, now an ionic form, but to employ.

22:30
Even the Zeus dialect in the bargain, so he's complaining about how difficult Homer is to read. I think many students have complained ever since, even in translation. Homer, it's difficult, but the point here.

22:45
Is that for dial Christmas and he's like, yeah, of course. The God speak a different language. They call this river, which we all know is called the Commander River. They call it the Xanthis River. Like that, they have a different, they have different words for the same thing.

22:58
So that's his point. OK, now I'm no. I told you that we had no parallels in Greco, Roman religion.

23:06
To speaking in tongues.

23:08
But we do have two parallels.

23:11
In the Jewish world.

23:13
These are pretty obscure documents, so I don't think you will have ever heard of them, but the first is called the Apocalypse of Zephaniah and this is what it says. It's a Jewish document written within the 1st century BC in the 1st century, 80s. That 200 year time frame frame either side of Christ it says thousands of thousands and myriads of myriads of angels.

23:34
They've praised before me.

23:36
I myself put on an angelic garment. I saw all of those angels praying. I myself prayed together with them. I knew their language, which they spoke with me.

23:49
So this is an account of someone who is speaking the same language as the angels, and it's a different language than the language of humans. Pretty interesting. The other one is the testament of job.

24:02
In Chapter 48 it says thus when the one called Himara arose, she wrapped around her own string, just as her father said she took on another heart, no longer minded toward earthly things, but she spoke ecstatically in the angelic dialects, sending up a hymn to God in account with the hymnic style of the angels.

24:22
And as she spoke ecstatically, she allowed the spirit to be inscribed on her garment. Pretty out there stuff. But hey, my point is not that it actually happened, OK? My point is that Jewish people were writing about speaking the same language as the Angel.

24:37
All right. And she's got two sisters. So we're just going to hit them real quick before we leave the testament of job and 49, then cautious bound hers on and had her heart changed so that she no longer regarded worldly things. We're talking about, like, putting on garments like a sash or or a string or something like that. So when they put this sort of, like, magical sash.

24:56
On they start to have these effects.

24:58
It says and her mouth took on the dialect of the archons.

25:02
That's the word for like.

25:03
Rulers and she praised God for the creation of the heights, so if anyone wishes to know the creation of the heavens, he will be able to find it in the hymns of Kasha.

25:15
Then we have the other sister who has a really hard name, then the other one also named a malfeas horn. I don't know why you would call a girl that name, but whatever she bound on her chord and her mouth spoke ecstatically in the dialect of those on high. Since her heart was also changed, keeping aloof from worldly things.

25:35
For she spoke in the dialect of the Cherubim, glorifying the master of Virtues by exhibiting their splendor, and finally whoever wishes to grasp a trace of the paternal splendor, it's like the title of a song or a poem. We'll find it written down in the prayers of amalthea's foreign.

25:54
So these are examples of speaking in the language of angels. Christopher Forbes writes about this. He says what the testament of Job does provide, however, is clear evidence that the concept of angelic language is as a mode of praise to God was an acceptable one within certain circles.

26:14
As such, it is our nearest parallel to glossolalia. I haven't used this word before, but this is the technical word for speaking in tongues that scholars like to use. I think speaking in tongues just sounds very long, so they'd say glossolalia.

26:28
Right. And it's a it's a compound word. It has the glossa, which is from the Greek glossa and then lalia.

26:37
Which means speaking in Greek from maleo.

26:40
The verb to speak.

26:42
So glossolalia just means literally speaking in tongues, but it's like a kind of like a technical term. He goes on. We have then within Judaism, only two substantial parallels for the concept that humans might under inspiration, learn and use the languages.

26:57
Of the angels for prayer. Neither of them is of demonstrably pre Christian date, and this is kind of one of the things Christopher Forbes makes a point about in his book he's like.

27:07
Look.

27:09
The apocalypse is Zephaniah and the Testament of Job.

27:14
These documents they could be before Christ, or they could be after Christianity, already got started. They could be late 1st century, if they're even like in the 70s or 80s. Christians were already speaking in tongues before that happened. I don't think that really matters that much because I don't think these are Christian documents.

27:33
I think they're Jewish documents and as such, what it shows us is that there is a Jewish idea of speaking in the language of the angels outside of First Corinthians 13, one because other than First Corinthians 13 one, there's literally nothing in the rest of the Bible about angelic languages.

27:52
So having two other data points is super helpful. Then we add on the point from Dio Chris System a Pagan. But like he's just using common sense. He's like well, yeah, of course the gods probably speak a different language.

28:04
Right. So I think that does give some credibility that First Corinthians 13. One is not just rhetoric. Yeah. So first grade is 13. One if I speak in the tongues of humans and of angels, but do not have love. I am a noisy gong or a clanging symbol. So what people do is they'll say, OK, well, you know this, this idea of speaking in the tongues of angels, that's not an.

28:25
Actual possibility he's just exaggerating. So, like, and even if I spoke in the language of the angels, which like presumably there's no such thing.

28:35
Then even then, I would be useless without love. OK, so the question is, is Paul, like, making a rhetorical move to strengthen his points, or is this actually a possibility and you really could go either way with it, but I figured I'd show you the evidence for the possibility of angels being a legit thing.

28:55
Uh, in my opinion, I don't know. Like.

28:58
How would I even be able to figure out?

29:00
Went out, you know, like record it and do some sort of analysis like, OK, well, what's my what's my baseline for angelic speech that I can compare it to you know like I don't know. I don't know how you figure it out but I think either one is possible. All right. First Corinthians 14 verse 2 gives us a little bit more on speaking in tongues.

29:21
Says.

29:21
For those who speak in a tongue, do not speak to other people, but to God, for no one understands them, since they are speaking mysteries in the spirit. Verse 4, those who speak in a tongue build up themselves, but those who prophecy build.

29:38
Up the church.

29:39
So we learned a few quick.

29:42
Points about speaking in tongues here. Tongues are two God by definition, speech to God is prayer.

29:50
So speaking in tongues is a form of prayer. It's it's a prayer in a foreign language. No one understands the tongues. That's the second point. Tongues are not for the use of explaining the sermon or some message to people in the room that don't speak the same language as you.

30:10
Like it literally.

30:11
Says no one understands what they're saying.

30:14
And then the last point is that the one who speaks in tongues edifies or builds himself up.

30:20
Or herself. Verse 6 now, brothers and sisters. If I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you? Unless I speak to you in some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? Verse 11, If then I do not know the meaning of a sound, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker. A foreigner.

30:21
Alright.

30:42
To me, people in the congregation don't understand speaking in tongue.

30:48
To others, the ones speaking in tongue sounds like a foreigner. You guys get this right. If I say to you.

31:02
What did I say?

31:04
Well, if you were a German, you would have understood that what I said was the chicken runs out of the.

31:09
House.

31:11
I chase it, I fall and the chicken gets away.

31:16
Not profound, not extolling the mighty deeds of God, but it sounds like a foreign language and foreign languages always sound weird. That's just the nature of them. Because you don't speak them. So speaking in tongue sounds like a foreign language. That's my point. Again, back to.

31:31
The Bah Bah Bah Bah.

31:32
Bah.

31:32
Bah, Bah. That doesn't sound like a foreign language.

31:35
The difference is tongues is a miracle, whereas other if you actually spend the time to learn a language, that's not a miracle. You're just learning a language.

31:45
Verse 13. Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret for if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unproductive. What should I do then? I will pray with the spirit, see speaking in tongues is prayer. I will pray with the spirit. I will pray with the mind. Also I will.

32:05
Sing praise with the spirit, but I will sing praise with the mind. Also verse 16. Otherwise if you say a blessing with the spirit, how can any one in the position of an outsider say the Amen to your Thanksgiving? Since the outsider does not know what you are saying, for you may give thanks well.

32:23
No, that's another thing that tongues does. You give thanks well enough, but the other person is not built up. I thank God I speak in tongues more than all of you knuckleheads. Alright doesn't say knuckleheads there, but that's the impression I'm getting here. Nevertheless, in church, I would rather speak 5 words with my mind in order to instruct others.

32:43
Then 10,000 words in a.

32:46
1.

32:47
So a quick couple of points on this. So praying in a tongue, he says, my spirit prays, but my mind is unproductive. So this tells us that not only do the other people in the room not understand what the speaking in tongues is.

33:02
But even the person him or herself doesn't know what they're saying. Their mind is unproductive.

33:09
Now we do have a couple of other quick references in the New Testament that could be related to this, and I want to show them to you real fast. One is Jude 119. It says it is these worldly people devoid of the spirit who are causing divisions. Well, verse 20. But you beloved, build yourselves up.

33:28
On your most holy faith, pray in the Holy Spirit. So this idea of praying in the Holy Spirit right after saying, build yourselves up kind of sounds like First Corinthians 14. This idea of praying in the spirit and.

33:43
Being something that builds you up and then Ephesians 6 verses 18 and 19, says pray in the spirit at all times.

33:52
So there's that phrase again, praying in the spirit at all times in every prayer and supplication. To that end, keep alert and always persevere in supplication for all the Saints. Pray also for me, and he goes on from there. So that could be just a generic pray and spirit like pray according to what the spirit is prompting you to pray for. Or it could be speaking in tongues.

34:13
Either way.

34:14
All right, let's skip ahead to verse 27. It says if anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be only two or at most 3, and each in turn, and let one interpret. But if there is no one to interpret, let them be silent in the church and speak to themselves and to God.

34:32
So if there's no one to interpret no tongues in the church service makes sense.

34:39
This doesn't mean that tongues shouldn't be spoken.

34:43
The person can still speak silently or speak to themselves and to God, right? And there's still also the usage of speaking in tongues privately. In other words, not during.

34:53
The church service.

34:55
So let's summarize a little bit before looking at the subject of cessationism.

35:00
Gordon Fee, I thought, did a really nice job with this summary, he said. The following seems certain commentators don't use that word too much, you know, certain is a very strong word. It's like I am absolutely confident of this and he lists off a few points a it is spirit inspired utterance that is made explicit both.

35:20
In the present listing as Chapter 12 and later Chapter 14 B, the coming regulations for its use make it clear that the speaker is not in ecstasy or out of control.

35:33
Quite the opposite. The speakers must speak in turn, and they must remain silent. If there is no one to interpret.

35:40
See, it is speech, essentially unintelligible both to the speaker and to other hearers D it is speech directed basically toward God. One may assume, therefore, that what is interpreted is not speech directed towards others, but the mysteries spoken to.

35:58
Not.

35:59
What is less certain is whether Paul also understood the phenomenon to be an actual language in favor of such a view. Are a the term itself B the need for interpretation, and C the evidence from the early narrative in acts. So I would agree with Gordon Fee on that.

36:19
Not everyone does it. Not everyone speaks in tongues, and I think that's fine. You shouldn't look down on others who don't speak in tongues. That's pretty much like his main point in the first script is 14. Well, 12 really, but also 13 and 14. And she right says it this way.

36:37
Paul assumes that none of these gifts are given to everybody. Do all speak in tongues.

36:43
Like the other questions, expects to answer no. This is at the very end of Chapter 12. And though Paul is also eager for God to do new things in the lives of people and communities, he sees no need to suggest that the not all categories of verses 29 and 30 should be challenged, that everyone should.

37:03
After all, be prophets or teachers or tongue speakers or whatever.

37:08
And for what it's worth, and T, right?

37:11
Speaks in tongues.

37:14
He's, he's into it. He's not trying. He's not trying to quench the spirit. He's a practicer himself. So that's a little bit about speaking in tongues in the context of First Corinthians. Well, the book of acts and 1st Corinthians.

37:28
Now I do want to address this other issue which is cessationism versus continuationism. Is there nice theological words for you? Cessationism is the idea that speaking in tongues ceased when the apostles died and continuationism is that speaking in tongues and the other gets the spirit continue.

37:48
In the church throughout time.

37:51
A lot of the debate comes out to this section in First Corinthians 13, verses 8 through 12. This is what it says. Love never ends.

38:01
But As for prophecies, they will come to an end. As for tongues, they will cease. That's where you get this word. Cessationism ceasing cessationism. As for knowledge, it will come to an end, for we know only in part. And we prophecy only in part. But when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end.

38:23
When I was a child, I spoke like a child.

38:26
I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. For now, we see only a reflection, as in a mirror, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part. Then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known.

38:46
So we have this phrase when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end and basically the idea is whatever that complete or whatever that perfect is.

38:59
This.

39:00
That's coming. We'll put an end to speaking in tongues. We'll put an end to prophecy. We'll put an end to faith and these other kinds of things. Whereas, like love is going to continue. That's the point of chapter 13. But like, I'm not really focused on love right now. I'm focused more on speaking in tongues like. Alright, so there's something that's coming, something that's perfect or complete that's coming. That's going to put an end speaking in tongues.

39:20
What is it?

39:22
John MacArthur writes in his book Strange Fire in First Corinthians 13/8, Paul explained that whether there are tongues, they will cease. The Greek verb used in that verse, pavo, means to cease permanently, indicating that the gift of tongues would come to an end once and for all. Whatever modern charismatics are doing.

39:44
It is not the gift of language.

39:47
The New Testament gift ceased after the Apostolic Age ended and has never returned in First Corinthians 1310, Paul noted that partial knowledge and partial prophecy would be done away with when that which is perfect is come. That's the part I was showing you in the verse earlier.

40:06
The believers entrance into the Lord's presence best fits Paul's use of perfect in First Corinthians 1310.

40:14
Paul was making a point that specifically pertained to his 1st century audience. When you Corinthian believers into the glorified perfection of eternity in heaven, the spiritual gifts you now prize so highly will no longer be necessary.

40:29
So John MacArthur thinks that when the first generation of Christians died.

40:36
They went to heaven and that fulfills first Corinthians 13, verse 10, when the perfect comes, the partial will come to an end.

40:45
Sounds more like. I mean, I don't even think anybody's going to heaven just for the record, I think I think heaven is coming to the earth when Jesus comes right, but let's just hold that to the side for a moment. Let's, let's say MacArthur's right and that everyone just goes off to heaven when they die. That sounds more like a going than.

41:04
A coming.

41:05
It seems like you're going to what is perfect, not what is perfect is coming to you, right? So those are two different things. And then you know, Paul talks and we're going to see this in a couple of sessions. We'll look at what he says about resurrection, Paul's huge into resurrection, chapter 15.

41:22
Paul talks multiple times about dead people being asleep.

41:26
And asleep people are not awake. That's all I'm gonna say about that.

41:31
So I don't think this is a likely explanation that John MacArthur offers here, but the real issue is evidential. We don't need to argue whether or not his interpretation is correct, we can just look at the historical record and see, like, did Christians keep speaking in tongues or no.

41:47
Now.

41:48
That's that's all the evidence we need. This is not something that's going to require language skills and theology degree. It's just like, well, let's just investigate the case and, like, do they do it or do they not do it? And as?

42:00
It turns out they did it.

42:02
So here are a couple of quotes. I'm.

42:04
Not going to.

42:05
Read the whole thing to you. In each case, I'm just going to read the highlighted part so that we can get through this rather.

42:12
Test Irenaeus, writing in the 2nd century in his book against Heresies. He says we too here many brothers in the church who possess the prophetic charisms his gifts and speak with all the tongues through the spirit.

42:28
Tertullian writing in the very early 3rd century against Marcion, says, let Marcion then exhibit an interpretation of tongue.

42:37
This.

42:38
So he's saying, you know, this, this other guy that he's arguing against. Well, let's see. You know who you got? This guy tongues, you know, show me your tongues.

42:46
And then he says, now all these signs of spiritual gifts are forthcoming from my side, without any difficulty. We've got tongues. What's your tongues, Marcia on where's your tongues among the marcionites?

42:58
Then we have innovation and Novation is running between 2:50 and 2:55 AD, he says. This is he who places prophets in the church, instructs teachers, directs tongues. And what's interesting here is the present.

43:12
Hence the word places doesn't say he who placed like in the past, since the time of the apostles, he uses a present tense talking about his own.

43:21
Time.

43:22
Then we have Hilary of Poitier and his book on the Trinity. He says for God hath set the same in the church gifts of either speaking or interpreting.

43:33
Diverse kinds of tongues.

43:35
God hath said the same in the church. He's saying this is something that is in his church.

43:42
Then we have the Apostolic constitutions, which comes from the year 375 to 380. Somewhere around there it says it is not therefore necessary that everyone of the faithful should cast out demons or raise the dead or speak with tongues. But such a one who is vouchsafed this gift.

44:00
Also, Apostolic Constitution says now we say these things that those who have received such gifts may not exalt themselves. Sounds like he's saying these things are happening in the church and he's giving some parameters on it so people don't get full of pride. Then we have Ambrose of Milan on his book the Holy Spirit, writing about the year.

44:20
381 he says God gave diverse kinds of tongues, each according to his capacity, receives that which he either desires or deserves.

44:32
So this is something that we see in church history. You see in the 2nd century and 3rd century in the 4th century. And then suddenly it disappears.

44:46
Kind of weird, huh? John Christendom writes about this. He's writing in the late 4th century. Very important Christian preacher. He says this whole place talking about First Corinthians 12 is very obscure. He's like.

44:58
Yeah.

44:59
In it, but the obscurity is produced by our ignorance of the facts referred to and by their cessation being such as then used to occur, but now no longer take place. You see that they used to occur and now no longer take place. And why do they not happen now? Why look now?

45:19
The cause, too of the obscurity has produced us again another question. Namely, why did they then happen and now do so? No more man that translator needs to get fired. That's just terrible. I think we can do better.

45:33
I'm sure like in the 19th century or whatever this was done, they were like, you know, that's some.

45:37
Good English men, really.

45:38
Rolls off the tongue, not this tongue, not this tongue. Alright. So John Christianson is writing in the late 4th century and he's like, yo, I don't.

45:47
Know anything about this?

45:49
We don't know what this is. It happened back in the old days, but.

45:53
It doesn't happen today.

45:55
And here's the thing. I can't find anybody else. Neither can Christopher Forbes, and he's really looking. You are a whole pH. D This is what he says from the end of the 4th century onwards, I have been able to find no clear suggestion of the continued practice of glossolalia within the church.

46:12
Christian's view, which is also Augustine's, becomes standard and little more can be said. What we have seen, however, is that glossolalia appears to have been known in three widely separated areas over a period of more than 350 years of the Church's life.

46:29
In the light of this evidence, it becomes impossible to argue that glossolalia was a limited anomalous phenomenon within the Apostolic generation. It was, On the contrary, A widespread and lasting, though far from universal, spiritual experience in the early formative centuries of Christianity.

46:50
And it just kind of we we just lose evidence, we're speaking in tongues in the 4th century. So by the time we get to the 5th century into the Middle age period, we just don't have references to it. That doesn't necessarily mean that nobody did it. People might have done it, and people might have even written about it and we still don't have it because most books from the ancient.

47:08
World don't survive.

47:10
OK. But it does start showing back up on the historical record, although the tracks run cold during the Middle Ages, we find scattered reports about speaking in tongues starting in the time of the Moravians, which is the 1400's the 15th.

47:25
And a Baptist in the 16th century, the French prophets in the 17th century, early Quakers in the 17th century, and Mormons in the 19th century. Then, at the dawn of the 20th century, the Pentecostal movement took off, with William Seymour's Azusa St. Revival. The movement steadily grew such that today more than.

47:45
One in every four Christians is charismatic and estimated 644,000,000 charismatic Christians or Christians who would say their spirit empowered today.

47:58
I am not going to make sense of all this for you. I'm just giving you the raw data and you can figure out what in the world happened. I've got a couple of speculative theories, but I'm not going to burden you with those. Let's just talk about application.

48:11
Application point.

48:14
We make time in our worship services for speaking in tongues. We make time for interpretation of times. We make time for prophecy. We make time for revelatory speech, divine speech.

48:28
We make time for God to interrupt or to disturb us, or or mess with us. You know, like we invite that into our services. William Barlow in preaching on the subject prayer and the Spirit said, I get it. Tongues is weird.

48:45
Speaking in tongues is weird. It's absolutely weird. If we define the power of God by our judgment of what is weird, we wouldn't experience much as long as we stay within the limits of Scripture and encourage each other to use discernment. I hope God continues to bring us more and more we.

49:01
Weird. We should want to experience more and more weird.

49:06
Speaking of tongues is weird, but it's cool.

49:10
It's definitely worth your consideration. It's divine speech, I mean.

49:15
Come on, that's awesome.

49:17
1st Thessalonians 519 says do not quench the spirit.

49:23
Do not despise prophecies, but test everything. Hold fast to what is good.

49:31
Now, look, if you don't have anytime in your Sunday service for the gifts of the Spirit for manifestations.

49:39
How is that not quenching the spirit?

49:42
Like if you just don't allow the spirit into your service into your worship gathering.

49:47
Then you are quenching the spirit. You're not doing it in an overt mean spirited way, but you're just saying we don't have any space for you here.

49:56
God, we're just going to. We're just going to do our prescribed liturgy that we planned a month ago or a year ago or, you know what I mean. So I think it is worthwhile to consider, especially those of you who are watching or listening to this, that are in church leadership, like, how can you make room for the expression of the spirit manifestation of the spirit.

50:17
In conclusion, maybe you should pursue speaking in tongues, at least in private. Maybe God's got something really great for you to experience there, or maybe that's not where he's leading you. Maybe he's leading you into one of these other things that we're going to look at in our next session as we continue in our class 1st Corinthians and context.

50:38
That brings this presentation to an end. What did you think? Come on over to restitutio.org and find Episode 598 speaking in tongues and leave your questions, thoughts, and feedback there. I should also mention that I am not done with First Corinthians 1213 and 14. I'm coming back around to it.

50:58
Next week, to really pick up what I left on the table, which is actually a lot, I was just focusing on.

51:04
On tongues today, and I will be getting into more prophecy and other aspects of tongues in our next episode. So if you are interested in going more in depth, we are going to do that. So stay tuned for next episode.

51:22
In episode 589 called homosexuality and singleness, I focused most of my attention on just first Corinthians 69.

51:32
Someone named Trina Carrera wrote in saying wonderful presentation on the fumbling over first Corinthians 69. Another question that comes up is what is meant here or in Leviticus by relations? Is it a specific act or an act of that nature? It's not clear to me having sex may have been defined.

51:52
Somewhat differently than in 20th Century America in terms of what is or is not counted.

52:00
So let me just pause right there and answer this question. I believe the text in question is the one in Leviticus where it says a man shall not lie with a man, as with a woman. In other words, we're talking about the kind of sexual activity that produces a baby.

52:21
If I could put it that way and to not do that with a man, presumably this would refer to intercourse as the action forbidden from Leviticus.

52:31
And the reason why I brought that up in that episode was because so much really.

52:37
Most of what people talk about when they talk about same sex couples or same-sex attraction or whatever, it's not the ACT itself. It's the attraction or it's the even more commonly identity.

52:53
People identify as gay or straight people identify as part of the LGBTQ IA community, right? So.

53:04
That's just not something the Bible talks about.

53:07
We could try and.

53:09
Now, that doesn't mean the Bible doesn't talk about identity at all. Actually, it talks a lot about identity, but it doesn't talk about sexual identity. Nobody is straight in the Bible. Nobody's gay. Some people have sexual relations with the same sex. Most people have sexual relations with the opposite sex.

53:28
In the Bible. But that is really just the only dimension on which this subject is approached. Now, as I shared in that episode, 589 on homosexuality and singleness, the Roman approach to same sex relations was completely different than how people think of it today.

53:50
Because for them it was all about power.

53:52
And So what Paul is doing here is approaching a topic, a behavior from a Jewish perspective, using Leviticus in the background, obviously by his word choice, I think I established that in order to engage with the Roman way of thinking about same sex relationships.

54:13
For a Roman it was fine to have same sex relationships with somebody of a lower status, so long as you were the active participant instead of the passive participant. If I could put it that.

54:26
And what Paul does is forbids both. Now he's not saying that people who experience same-sex attraction cannot enter the Kingdom of God. That is not what he's saying, and I've I've really tried to drive that home. In this episode. There are many.

54:39
Same sex attracted Christians who, because of Christ, decide to be single, decide to not engage in sexual activity because they're not attracted to the opposite sex and therefore on a Christian understanding, cannot have a marriage. Now this commenter goes on to say the problem is that you're not giving a gay person.

54:59
Any way out?

55:01
If they can't marry.

55:04
Couple of responses on this. First of all, I'm not doing anything. This is not me. I'm not reporting to you. What does Sean Finnegan think about LGBTQ IA this? These are not my thoughts. All right, I'm reporting to you. What? First Corinthians 69 says in its context, and what it's saying in its context is that.

55:24
Whether you're gay, straight, BI, however you identify is irrelevant. It's just not what it's talking about. The behavior itself, the activity itself, is what the Bible condemns as a sin, and it's not the worst sin ever. It's a sin and a list of other sins, all of which will keep you out of the Kingdom of God if you do not repent of them.

55:44
So I can't sugarcoat this and say, oh, well, they didn't understand.

55:48
About monogamous couples or something like that it it's irrelevant. It doesn't have anything to do with it. If you it. Whatever whatever's in your head while you're doing the act is not what's in view here. What's in view here is the act itself, just like it was for the Torah. And so therefore, if you want to be a Christian, and if you want to.

56:09
Accept the Bible as an authority and your same-sex attracted. That means that you are.

56:16
Of it.

56:17
I would add to that if you are opposite sex attracted, you are also celibate unless you're married.

56:24
And honestly, that's a way bigger issue in my experience as a pastor than same-sex people.

56:33
Opposite sex attracted people who are having sexual relations prior to marriage with people they're not married to, even while they're married or after they're divorced or their spouse dies and they're having sexual relations. They're older now. They're like, oh, I can do whatever I want. No, no, you can't do whatever you want. Not if you're going to name the name of Christ.

56:54
And if you're going to say those.

56:55
Powerful words. Jesus is Lord the moment you say, Lord, and you attach Lord to Jesus, you are saying that he's the boss and that you are submitting to his authority. And if you submit to his authority, Jesus held a traditional biblical Jewish.

57:15
Sexual ethic, as spelled out in the Old Testament. That's what he held. He never challenges it. He never says, hey, guys.

57:23
Update he does update other things in the Sermon on the Mountain. He even challenges some interpretations and some understandings. You know, he for example he forbids making oaths. The Old Testament is fine with making oaths. So obviously Jesus can change things. He is the mediator of the New Covenant. So I fully respect that. But he doesn't change anything when it comes to sexuality.

57:44
And if he doesn't change anything when it comes to sexuality and you want to be an authentic Christian, a follower of Christ, someone who says I believe this guy is the Messiah.

57:54
Then it means that you submit to his understanding of human flourishing. How can we flourish as human beings? How can we live faithfully to God? How can we practice righteousness? Well, it is either through celibacy, which Jesus himself was celibate.

58:11
Paul himself was celibate, at least by the time he was a missionary. He was.

58:17
Scholars debate on whether or not he had been married before or not, but Paul was Paul Paul's emphatic in first Corinthians 7, as we saw in this class, he is celibate. Jesus was celibate. Look, there are lots of great celibate super Christians throughout history and living today as well.

58:36
So it doesn't mean you're a second class Christian. It doesn't mean that there is something.

58:42
Terrible about you. No, it just means that you are choosing to be single for Christ. And I think if you're in that situation, whether you're same-sex attracted or not, I think you're awesome. And I think you're doing a good job and really, you know, the priority in our lives should be serving God and following Christ and like the sex stuff. OK.

59:02
It's a blessing if you are in a situation where you're married to somebody of the opposite sex, you know, OK, that's a blessing that God gives, but it's not everything and it's not going to save you. And it's not the end of the world if.

59:14
You don't have access to it.

59:17
Well, in the course of this class, there have been a couple of comments made that have made my day.

59:25
Uh, one of them was when somebody said to me after one of the recordings, somebody who was there in person said to me, I don't think anybody has any questions.

59:38
Because I was thinking about doing a Q&A afterwards and she was saying, oh, I don't think anybody has any questions. And I was like, well, why? Why is that, you know this?

59:47
This is interesting stuff.

59:49
And she said, well, honestly, I don't think anybody knows anything about what you're talking about. Like you, you just.

59:55
You're just. You're just talking about stuff that we don't have any knowledge on, so there's just nothing to really ask about because it's it's all brand new. People don't have opinions on it. They don't have issues with it. And I was thinking, you know, that is really one of the greatest compliments you could receive. Teaching a class that it is just like, so fresh, especially when you've been a pastor for 20 years.

1:00:15
OK, to be able to do something that is so fresh that people are like, whoa, this is different. That is often my goal. To say the same thing in a new way. And so I'm glad that that came across. But then just five days ago now on the YouTube channel, Paul Thompson wrote in on episode 597.

1:00:35
Which is our last episode on inspiration of divine speech, and I think he outdid the previous comment I just referred to, he said. Did Greco-roman background to New Testament in my postgrad biblical studies, HA wished you were teaching.

1:00:49
That refreshing and love that you nailed the revolutionary nature of community slash love at the heart of prophetic practice was also involved in member signs and wonders movement wished this was understood better at that time.

1:01:05
Well, Paul, you just made my day, my man. You're somebody who studied Greco-roman background to the New Testament as a postgraduate. And you think this class is helpful? You think this class is on point?

1:01:20
How much that you commented in that is amazing. I really do strive to bring to you listeners the highest standards of research and what I mean by that is rather than I think like a Level 1 would be, just like asking AI or doing an Internet search and finding a website or something.

1:01:43
To talk about this material I'm looking at OK Level 2. Who are the actual scholars who are considered to be experts on this and what do they say?

1:01:55
So looking at Jerome Murphy O'Connor and Bruce Winter and Dale Martin, among others on 1st Corinthians and seeing what they say. But then going to Level 3 and what is Level 3, Level 3 is actually interacting with the primary sources themselves from the Greco-roman literature.

1:02:16
Translating into English. Thank God that's already been done, but sometimes also having access to the Greek or the Latin so that if there's a word that needs to be looked up, I can do that. And seeing what did the earliest primary sources say about these different subjects. So you're not dependent, first of all, you're not dependent on me, Sean.

1:02:37
You're also not dependent on some sort of expert in the field. You're actually dependent on the original primary sources themselves, and let me tell you something that is no joke when it comes to how much time it takes, how much money it takes, how much effort it takes to read these old English translations, a lot of them are.

1:02:56
From the turn of the.

1:02:57
Last century, the 20th century, and they're they're translated by people that.

1:03:04
Are comfortable with long, complicated sentences with lots of subordinate clauses and specialized terminology or words that just like, haven't don't even get used anymore. So I'm so gratified to hear Paul that you think it's up to snuff and that it is comparable to your postgrad biblical studies.

1:03:24
I also really want to be accessible. This is important to me. I'm not going to just use jargon for the sake of using jargon. I know lots of big words, but that doesn't mean that I want to use them and lose people if that makes sense.

1:03:40
Yes.

1:03:42
I do use big words just to become clean, but if I do, I try to be sensitive to the fact that most people are not specialists. Most people don't have graduate degrees in the fields that relate to this, and so I want to be able to. If I use a big word to define it and try to speak in such a way that people.

1:04:02
Can have access and understand and that they can develop their own understanding of the material.

1:04:09
Someone else named AJ Daniel wrote in on my blog post are the gods of the Nations demons or mere idols? He said. The gods of the Gentiles are demons, is an accurate translation. The gods of the Gentiles are in fact demons. There are several instances when this has been evidenced throughout history, as recorded in the scriptures.

1:04:30
Starting with Moses, when he confronted Pharaoh reading Exodus 7, the magicians and the sorcerers of the Pharaoh of Egypt also reproduced the miracles that God had done by the hand of Moses.

1:04:41
The very first miracle of the staff of Aaron turning to a serpent was replicated by the sorcerers and Enchanters of Egypt. The sorcerer's Enchanters and the Magicians of Egypt are invoking the gods behind their idols. Who had this creative but limited power, the idols in themselves have no power in them, after all, they are made of wood stone.

1:05:01
Or precious metal, however, when men prostate themselves before such idols, the spirits whom these scriptures call sons of God in Psalm 82, six do by some unknown means become recipients of that.

1:05:15
Worship.

1:05:16
Well, thanks, AJ Daniel for writing in. There's some really interesting thoughts. The intersection of the idol, this sort of like just physical thing with the spiritual realm and the powers. This is definitely something that is of personal interest to me currently, as I'm working on 2 of Paul's epistles.

1:05:38
I've been hard at work on Colossians and I'm about to embark on a sermon series at my home church, starting this Sunday on Ephesians and Colossians. And Ephesians have just an incredible amount of language and concepts.

1:05:52
Common and one of those is this idea of the powers, and so this is something I'm very keenly interested in as far as what is the relationship of Christ to the powers it seems like in Colossians we read that Christ created the powers, and then in Ephesians we read that.

1:06:13
Christ has been elevated above the power.

1:06:16
And so I'm wondering, you know, are there multiple? How I'm I'm wondering how do we conceive of these powers in light of the Christ event itself in light of the cosmic reordering of the heavenly realm? If I could put it that way, as by virtue of the exultation of Christ to God's right hand.

1:06:36
So in other words.

1:06:38
When it says in him were created all things and it lists out Thrones and dominions and so forth. These political these political entities, whether spiritual or physical. I think it probably includes both.

1:06:52
What? What is this referring to? To me, this is referring to a new situation by virtue of the Christ event.

1:07:00
Called the church.

1:07:02
Whereas the one in Ephesians refers to the old.

1:07:07
Principalities and powers that are rebellious, perhaps because Christ is above them or maybe not rebellious. I don't know. I'm working on it, but it is something that is of great interest to me.

1:07:18
How do all these powers function? I don't think flattening it out to say, oh, we're just talking about angels. Their only role is to be a messenger or a worshipper. I don't think that really comports with the complexity we find in the Old Testament, especially in Psalm 82, as Mike Kaiser had continually pointed out.

1:07:39
During his life in his talks, and certainly in his book, The Unseen Realm, which was it was then picked up by.

1:07:44
Tim Mackey and the Bible project.

1:07:46
And so I think they have really popularized it a great deal as well. And so I think there is something more to the universe than just.

1:07:55
God.

1:07:56
God, Christ, angels, demons, humans, animals and then like.

1:08:03
What? Insects, plants, inanimate things? I I think it's actually more complicated than that. I think there are other categories going on. Would love to hear your thoughts on this. Come on over to the website restitutio.org and find under articles.

1:08:18
Short articles are the gods of the nations, demons, or mere idols or another. Another way into that would be just to search for demons, idols and restitutio, and like whatever search engine you use, and that will probably just pull it up that way. Well, thanks everybody for listening. I appreciate it.

1:08:38
If you're enjoying this series on 1st Corinthians and contacts, please share it with others that you think might be interested, whether on social media, e-mail, text, message, them, whatever. We're on YouTube, we're on Spotify, we're on Apple Podcast.

1:08:52
Yes, we're on restitutio.org the website, so please do share it if you are enjoying this content. Also if you would like to, you could support us financially at restitutio.org. We've got a donate button there. Thanks to those of you who are supporting us. It helps a lot.

1:09:11
Well, that's going to be it for today. And don't forget, the truth has nothing to fear.