This is the transcript of Restitutio episode 583: Not Alone Anymore with Vaughn Madsen This transcript was auto-generated and only approximates the contents of this episode. Audio file 583 Vaughn Madsenn - testimony2.mp3 Transcript 00:00 Sean Finnegan Hey. 00:01 Sean Finnegan I'm Sean. 00:02 Sean Finnegan And you are listening to restitudio, a podcast that seeks to recover authentic Christianity and live it out today. 00:12 Sean Finnegan As we left things last time, von Madsen of New Zealand had been on a quest for biblical truth that resulted in repeated rejection from churches and Bible studies. Apart from his kids, Vaughn was alone. 00:27 Sean Finnegan He met a couple of random people and St. Evangelism who seemed to agree with him about Jesus, but that was it. For years, even his wife, Sharon, didn't agree with him, no matter how much he tried, he couldn't manage to convince her otherwise. 00:44 Sean Finnegan He prayed and prayed. He waited. 00:48 Sean Finnegan He was patient. 00:51 Sean Finnegan Then in the last two years, something changed. 00:55 Sean Finnegan Today you'll find out what that was. 00:57 Sean Finnegan As we listen in to the exciting conclusion of the story here, now is Episode 583. 01:00 Sean Finnegan 3. 01:03 Sean Finnegan Not alone anymore with von Matson. 01:14 Vaughn Madsen There was a podcast by Tracy Z on the Kingdom of God missions and she had a online conference and some guest speakers from that online conference was David and Marlene Nut and they were from New Zealand. 01:31 Vaughn Madsen And they were going to be speaking and I could see these speakers coming up. 01:35 Vaughn Madsen I thought, man, here's some. 01:37 Vaughn Madsen Unitarians and Biblical Unitarians in New Zealand, and I didn't know any other Biblical Unitarians except for my three children at that stage, were married and also friend of mine, who I've been doing a lot of St. preaching with him and his wife had changed from Trinitarian to B. 01:48 Hmm. 01:57 Vaughn Madsen Unitarian. 01:59 Vaughn Madsen I didn't know anybody in New Zealand so two years ago I listened to David and Marlene sharing the story of what they do in the Solomons. 02:10 Vaughn Madsen I don't know how to e-mail because I'm too old and I'm not very good with technology, but I I left a comment on the YouTube channel. 02:19 Vaughn Madsen And I said, can you give me the details of David and Marlene? 02:23 Vaughn Madsen I would love to know where they are. New Zealand, I was really hoping there was in the North Islands. Long story short. 02:32 Vaughn Madsen I was put in contact with David and Marlene. 02:36 Vaughn Madsen David rang me. 02:38 Vaughn Madsen I got talking with David and he was just like this connection with them that I couldn't explain. It was. It was. 02:47 Vaughn Madsen It was just like we were brothers. 02:49 Vaughn Madsen I guess we were brothers and sisters and right at that time at the same time, our son-in-law and daughter who were youth pastors of. 03:01 Vaughn Madsen Had just gone to the elders and said that it was a Trinitarian. 03:06 Vaughn Madsen They didn't believe the Trinity, but they knew they couldn't speak against it or even, you know, teach that God is the father align. 03:16 Vaughn Madsen I did several conversations with with Zack about it, but Kayden, Zach had got to a point where they knew they they weren't comfortable anymore. 03:27 Vaughn Madsen Because they did a lot of the mentoring they've been working as youth pastors for 3 1/2 years. 03:35 Vaughn Madsen These were young adults that needed answers, and so catering that. 03:40 Vaughn Madsen Went to the elders and had a meeting with them. 03:44 Vaughn Madsen This is our daughter and son-in-law. 03:47 Vaughn Madsen And they were shut down overnight. 03:49 Vaughn Madsen They were allowed no more contact with the church or with youth group who they were very, very close to, and their church, who they were very, very close to. 04:02 Vaughn Madsen Overnight and said well, can I at least? 04:06 Vaughn Madsen Explain to the church what I believe and the elders said no. But they said you can give us a statement of faith. 04:16 Vaughn Madsen Catherine Zeta. 04:16 Vaughn Madsen Very prayerfully wrote what they believe and what they don't believe, and they emailed it to the elders and they passed it to be read out in front of the church. 04:31 Vaughn Madsen They read that and they said, well, we're not going to read this to the church because. 04:37 Vaughn Madsen It's going to cause a lot of confusion because it was so biblical at the same time I had just got to know David and Marlene on the phone. 04:48 Vaughn Madsen It was a really big deal for Kayla and. 04:52 Vaughn Madsen They lost their. 04:53 Vaughn Madsen They had lost their job. 04:56 Vaughn Madsen I just got to know David and Marlene. 04:59 Vaughn Madsen And they gave me great divels context, and Greg's an Australian. 05:05 Vaughn Madsen Unitarian. I got hold of Greek and this was all just God's timing, and I'm trying to explain how Sharon phoned me. 05:13 Sean Finnegan Yeah. I'm. I'm. I'm with you. 05:15 Vaughn Madsen Yeah. So. 05:18 Vaughn Madsen I'm messaging. 05:19 Vaughn Madsen I hate to learn how to do Facebook and message so I could contact Greg and I said to Greg, do you know of a Unitarian church in New Zealand? 05:28 Vaughn Madsen Yeah, I. 05:29 Vaughn Madsen I know of a really good Unitarian church in New Zealand. 05:31 Vaughn Madsen Like what he. 05:33 Vaughn Madsen It's on Hamilton, I said. What? 05:36 Vaughn Madsen I rang Kayla and I told Kayla and Zach about this Unitarian church. 05:42 Vaughn Madsen And. 05:43 Vaughn Madsen So Kayla and Zach went from going to their church to this meeting. 05:50 Vaughn Madsen To not being allowed to talk to anybody. 05:52 Vaughn Madsen The church. 05:54 Vaughn Madsen Or the kids about what they believe at this. 05:57 Vaughn Madsen Sean, sorry, I'm, I know I'm jumping all over the place at this stage. 06:01 Vaughn Madsen Our family didn't really have a church except for Sharon. 06:04 Vaughn Madsen Sharon was going to a small local Trinitarian church. 06:11 Vaughn Madsen I couldn't go there because I just upset people and I realized that. 06:15 Vaughn Madsen I've given up on church. 06:18 Vaughn Madsen Josh had given up on church, my son and his daughter because they were passionate Unitarians as well. 06:25 Vaughn Madsen Lane and his. 06:26 Vaughn Madsen So my two sons and their wives, they didn't have a church. 06:30 Vaughn Madsen Now kayla's. 06:32 Vaughn Madsen Wasn't allowed to speak in their church, which was. I mean, I I don't know. After being in the position they were in. 06:39 Vaughn Madsen And then being told you're not allowed to speak to anybody about what you believe was pretty strange. 06:48 Vaughn Madsen The very next Sunday. 06:51 Vaughn Madsen All there was and there was my friend Ewan and Steph as well. This preacher guy that who was no longer a Trinitarian. 06:57 Vaughn Madsen So there was 6. 06:59 Vaughn Madsen There was eleven of us heading to this new Unitarian church. 07:05 Vaughn Madsen Which was absolutely amazing. 07:07 Vaughn Madsen I just cried and cried and cried. 07:08 Vaughn Madsen Just couldn't believe. 07:09 Vaughn Madsen We went there and the leaders were talking. 07:12 Vaughn Madsen You know, there's a lot of very Unitarian talk, if you like. And even the songs that. 07:19 Vaughn Madsen Songs a little. 07:20 Vaughn Madsen There's no father son in Holy Spirit is an extra the the one God. 07:22 Sean Finnegan Yeah. 07:26 Vaughn Madsen This was an amazing time for us. 07:30 Vaughn Madsen Greg Dible came over to pastor the church for two months, just after we'd started. 07:37 Vaughn Madsen Sharon spent a lot of time with. 07:40 Vaughn Madsen She spent a lot of time with David and Marlene and also she had. 07:45 Vaughn Madsen Saying what had happened to Kayla and Zach when they opened their mouth and said we don't believe the Trinity the second they open their mouth and and Sharon had a lot of respect for that. 07:56 Vaughn Madsen Been along there several, many, many times when Zach was preaching and she had a lot of extended family that went to that church. 08:03 Sean Finnegan OK. 08:04 Vaughn Madsen Her eyes was open to the reality of. 08:10 Vaughn Madsen The power or the force, if you like, that is behind the Trinity and I would come and this way things got really weird or so cool for me. I would come on off the farm because. 08:25 Vaughn Madsen Zach, when this happened to Zach, he he had to know more information on who Jesus is. 08:33 Vaughn Madsen So he got into your podcast and any. 08:38 Vaughn Madsen Any teaching that he could find, he's a builder and he just listened to hours and hours and hours and hours and his understanding and his growth was incredible. 08:49 Vaughn Madsen I would come in off the farm and. 08:53 Vaughn Madsen Find your voice. 08:55 Yeah. 08:56 Vaughn Madsen And my and my house, I'd be taken off my balls and I can hear Sean. 09:02 Vaughn Madsen And it's Sharon. 09:03 Vaughn Madsen And she was listening to Els and Els and Els of you guys. 09:08 Hmm. 09:10 Vaughn Madsen And with, you know, just rest the studio and and various people's testimonies and also teachings on various parts of the Bible explaining it might be first John and we don't have to look at it like. 09:25 Vaughn Madsen You've been. 09:26 Vaughn Madsen You know there are answers. 09:28 Vaughn Madsen Somewhere along the line there. 09:32 Vaughn Madsen Sharon changed and she got to the point where she jumped ship. 09:38 Vaughn Madsen You. 09:39 Vaughn Madsen You know, she he realized, he realized. 09:39 Sean Finnegan Yeah. 09:42 Vaughn Madsen I'm not a. 09:43 Vaughn Madsen And in the last two years. 09:47 Vaughn Madsen The change for us was. 09:50 Vaughn Madsen Now we're sitting in a church that we believed was a Unitarian church. 09:54 Vaughn Madsen With our three kids, their spouses and they were two years ago, our kids started having babies. 10:04 Vaughn Madsen The last two years we've gone from no grandchildren to almost 6 grandchildren. 10:10 Vaughn Madsen And there's been so much change. And then that church that we was going to. 10:18 Vaughn Madsen It was a Trinitarian and a Unitarian church. 10:22 Vaughn Madsen So for the sake of yeah, I think it was for the sake of numbers and they were having a lot of Trinitarian preachers there after we'd been going. 10:23 Sean Finnegan It had both. 10:33 Vaughn Madsen For four months. 10:35 Vaughn Madsen We got called into a they called it a late welcomers meeting and they wanted to welcome us as a family one night. 10:43 Vaughn Madsen So we we met with the leaders there and they said to us. 10:47 Vaughn Madsen And it was mainly me and you and possibly Zach. 10:52 Vaughn Madsen Josh definitely. 10:54 Vaughn Madsen That we're not allowed to talk to any of the preachers when they've. 10:57 Vaughn Madsen It doesn't matter what they've been preaching on, so if they're preaching on the Trinity, we're not allowed to go and have any conversation with them at all because we were upsetting them. 11:10 Vaughn Madsen Challenging them on how they'd interpreted texts of the Bible. 11:16 Vaughn Madsen And so I guess Long story short. 11:19 Vaughn Madsen After talking with the leadership and I said, look, haven't I got freedom of speech? And they said not in this church you have it? No. 11:26 Vaughn Madsen So they're going to tell me who. 11:28 Vaughn Madsen Could who I could talk to and what I could talk to them about it. What? Who? 11:32 Vaughn Madsen Can't talk to about what? I can't talk about. 11:36 Vaughn Madsen Oh, it's pretty upset as, as you can imagine, I was driving home and just the the roller coaster we was on was was gone from, from going to the ships that I believe was a Unitarian church and just tears of of joy. 11:52 Vaughn Madsen And now realizing that. 11:55 Vaughn Madsen It's actually not a Unitarian church and. 11:58 Vaughn Madsen So I I decided after after a year, I said. 12:02 Vaughn Madsen I don't want to upset people. 12:04 Vaughn Madsen I'm I'm. 12:04 Vaughn Madsen I've upset way too many people over the last however many years and way too many churches. 12:10 Vaughn Madsen I said. 12:10 Vaughn Madsen I'm. I'm out of. 12:12 Vaughn Madsen I told that to my wife. 12:14 Vaughn Madsen Because all our other children are married and they've got their own homes. 12:19 Vaughn Madsen As it turns out, we all stopped going together at the same time. 12:23 Vaughn Madsen Didn't turn up. 12:24 Vaughn Madsen And 2nd, 2nd Taylor talked about. 12:24 No. 12:26 Vaughn Madsen They decided they couldn't fellowship there, Josh and Bianca. 12:32 Vaughn Madsen So then we're a family that. 12:35 Vaughn Madsen We don't have a church, including Cheryl. 12:37 Vaughn Madsen I think Sharon got to the point she can't go to a Trinitarian church either. 12:41 Vaughn Madsen Just she was. 12:42 Vaughn Madsen She was fully on board now. 12:45 Vaughn Madsen She'd listen to too much of the Bible. 12:47 Vaughn Madsen Solid Bible teaching. 12:50 Vaughn Madsen So now as family were left with no no church, I think maybe five months, four months ago. 12:58 Vaughn Madsen Zach. 12:58 Vaughn Madsen Well, how about we start up a home? 13:01 Vaughn Madsen Didn't want to call it a. 13:02 Vaughn Madsen Maybe just a home Bible study. You know, for anybody who wants to come along to that Bible study. 13:09 Vaughn Madsen So he did. 13:11 Vaughn Madsen Also, Zach, him and. 13:14 Vaughn Madsen They wanted to connect Unitarians in New Zealand together, and that's where I think he came to you and and others wanting to know, is there any chance? 13:23 Right. 13:27 Vaughn Madsen He'll. 13:28 Vaughn Madsen He could get a conference, a Unitarian conference in New Zealand. 13:34 Vaughn Madsen Yeah, I mean. 13:35 Vaughn Madsen Do you want to talk about that, Sean? 13:36 Sean Finnegan Yeah, I mean, I can sure. 13:38 Sean Finnegan So I think what Zach did is he went through the website, the UCA website, and I have a previous interview with him on this podcast. 13:45 Sean Finnegan Want to listen to? 13:46 Sean Finnegan They can to get the full details, but he got in touch with people and. 13:51 Sean Finnegan Organized this conference and he was thinking. 13:56 Sean Finnegan Maybe 30 people would come. 13:59 Sean Finnegan And so we got a venue that could hold a maximum of 100 people and then after promoting it, a number of folks. 14:11 Sean Finnegan Signed up and he ended up closing registration because too many people wanted to come. 14:18 Sean Finnegan Which is just unbelievable that for a first time, you know, I mean really a move of God. 14:24 Sean Finnegan That you're turning people away in your 1st every year so. 14:29 Sean Finnegan And then we were able to have that conference last November. 14:33 Sean Finnegan I'm curious like looking back on it now, it's been about a month. 14:36 Sean Finnegan Was it like for you seeing all these people 'cause? 14:38 Sean Finnegan I I got to meet David and Marlene and I got to. 14:41 Sean Finnegan You know, so many of the folks that you had networked with and others had. 14:46 Vaughn Madsen David and Marlene, we've we've been friends with them now for two years. Just over two years. 14:54 Vaughn Madsen We're supporting them in their mission work. 14:57 Vaughn Madsen In every way we can, but the impact that had. 15:01 Vaughn Madsen On Sharon and their codes, and also Kayla and Zach, like at the conference, we don't feel alone anymore. Absolutely. Totally not Sharon. 15:13 Sean Finnegan Well, Sharon was cooking for everyone, so she she was pretty busy. 15:13 Vaughn Madsen Sharon. 15:16 Vaughn Madsen Oh she oh. 15:17 Vaughn Madsen She was very busy. What we was told for years. 15:21 Vaughn Madsen But what I. 15:21 Vaughn Madsen Was told for years and I couldn't even argue is you're the only one who thinks this way. And Sharon was told. 15:29 Vaughn Madsen All of the scholars believe the Trinity, and that's what she believed, because that's what she was told. 15:35 Vaughn Madsen And now she knows. 15:39 Vaughn Madsen Many Bible teachers and scholars like you guys and the the peace and the understanding that that we can for her to be fellowshipping and for for I think for all of us probably including you guys as well but. 15:57 Vaughn Madsen It was almost like a a small. 16:01 Vaughn Madsen And to the Kingdom that is to come. 16:03 Sean Finnegan Yes. 16:05 Vaughn Madsen It's how I. 16:06 Vaughn Madsen I felt for so long, every Christian Church that I've been in, I just feel like I'm fighting. 16:11 Vaughn Madsen I'm fighting. 16:12 Vaughn Madsen Against who God is and against righteousness, and it's just been a battle. 16:18 Vaughn Madsen Just been a battle. You speak truth. 16:22 Vaughn Madsen There's a. 16:22 Vaughn Madsen This is a quote by, I think his name's Leonard Ravenhill. If you want to be popular, preach happiness. 16:27 Sean Finnegan I heard of him. 16:32 Vaughn Madsen If you want to be unpopular, preach holiness. 16:37 Vaughn Madsen And that's what I've been trying to preach or teach or get people to see for so long. 16:47 Vaughn Madsen And what I thought was the church. 16:51 Vaughn Madsen Es And it didn't go well. 16:54 Vaughn Madsen With the Unitarians, this conference somehow. 17:01 Vaughn Madsen To a large degree, we were all on the same page. You know, as far as who Jesus is, as far as. 17:07 Vaughn Madsen God's Kingdom, as far as death as far as repentance. 17:13 Vaughn Madsen And there were so many people that came from other countries and different parts of New Zealand and we didn't know each other. But there was a there was a love and a bond that was like, instant. 17:24 Speaker 4 Mm. 17:25 Vaughn Madsen And for for me, there was a a guy that I've been trying to get hold of. 17:31 Sean Finnegan Oh yeah. 17:32 Sean Finnegan Tell the story of Alistair. 17:34 Vaughn Madsen Mean it's just. 17:34 It. 17:35 Sean Finnegan Was like a year ago. You had heard about him getting kicked out of a church. 17:39 Vaughn Madsen 18 months ago. 17:40 Sean Finnegan 18 months. Yeah. Tell us about that. 17:42 Vaughn Madsen Yeah, 18 months ago he was at my brother's church, which is a a Trinitarian church. And. And this is a man who has Bible training. 17:52 Vaughn Madsen This is a man who has done Bible lecturing. 17:57 Vaughn Madsen And two years ago, he comes to realize that God is not a Trinity. 18:03 Vaughn Madsen And he couldn't keep his mouth shut. 18:05 Vaughn Madsen Just wanted to. 18:06 Vaughn Madsen And he realized all these other things as well, that that, you know, God's Kingdom that is to. 18:11 Vaughn Madsen And. 18:12 Vaughn Madsen And my brother told me about this black sheep in his church and and he said that the elders. 18:19 Vaughn Madsen Have talked to this guy. 18:22 Vaughn Madsen And the pastor in this, this man won't listen. 18:27 Vaughn Madsen And so I've kicked him out. 18:30 Vaughn Madsen He wouldn't shut his mouth. So they they told him he wasn't welcome back there anymore unless he repented. 18:37 Vaughn Madsen And I I asked my brother, I said, can you give me this guy's? 18:41 Vaughn Madsen I didn't know whether he was a Unitarian or whether he's a changed to be a geologist, witness, or a or a Mormon, or I didn't know what he was. 18:50 Vaughn Madsen All I knew is that he didn't believe the Trinity anymore. 18:54 Vaughn Madsen That's all I knew and and. 18:56 Vaughn Madsen And I said, can I have his name? 18:59 Vaughn Madsen And he says. 19:00 Vaughn Madsen And I said why? 19:01 Vaughn Madsen And he said, we don't want them having any. 19:03 Speaker 4 Support. 19:04 Vaughn Madsen We don't want them getting support from you. 19:06 Sean Finnegan That's twisted, man. 19:09 Vaughn Madsen No, it is. It's pretty hard. 19:11 Vaughn Madsen I I so I was praying for this man. 19:13 Vaughn Madsen I was praying and praying and praying for this man that that God would carry him in the hard times, that that he's going and God would continue to show him truth. 19:25 Vaughn Madsen I said to Zack, is there anybody coming from Taronga and? 19:29 Vaughn Madsen There's about 300,000 people there and there's dozens and dozens of churches and. 19:35 Vaughn Madsen And Zach said there's one person who's coming from taranga, and on the was it the first day Zach or the second day? 19:44 Vaughn Madsen First night, the first night I turned up and Zach standing with this man from tarragon, Zach said to me. 19:52 Vaughn Madsen Vaughn. He's the guy from Tarang and I said. 19:56 Vaughn Madsen You didn't belong to a brethren church in Greyton, did you? 20:00 Vaughn Madsen And he said, yeah, I did. And I, I just wanted to grab him and hug him. And I says, man, I've been praying for you for 18 months. 20:11 Vaughn Madsen It signed up and come. 20:13 Vaughn Madsen I've only met him, so I I met him at the conference, so I've talked to him once on the phone after that and he's come over twice to my place since then and we've gone to two different towns preaching. 20:26 Vaughn Madsen And this man is the most passionate. I've done a lot of preaching St. preaching with a lot of different St. preachers and what I've realized is there are very, very few St. preachers. 20:41 Vaughn Madsen But there's none that I know of that are doing it biblically or doing it well. 20:48 Vaughn Madsen They almost want to stir people up. This guy's told me that he's a street preacher and I said, you what? 20:50 Sean Finnegan Yeah. 20:55 Sean Finnegan 'Cause, that's you too. 20:57 Vaughn Madsen That's me. 20:58 Sean Finnegan Yeah. 20:58 Vaughn Madsen That's been me for the last five years. He showed me his camper van at. 21:03 Vaughn Madsen At the conference and the the writing, I would never put the writing he's got inside. 21:09 We get a. 21:09 Vaughn Madsen Lot of money to have very professional writing. 21:12 Vaughn Madsen I would never do that because I'd be worried that my camper van just gonna get burnt down. 21:16 Vaughn Madsen Well, not be it. 21:17 Sean Finnegan Yeah, he's. He's a bold man, yeah. 21:18 Vaughn Madsen No. 21:19 Vaughn Madsen He's got all he this. 21:22 Vaughn Madsen Guy is full on. 21:24 Vaughn Madsen I've been off speed now 4 hours on the on the streets with him in two different towns. 21:31 Vaughn Madsen I've already learned so much. 21:35 Vaughn Madsen This guy is the most gentle. 21:39 Vaughn Madsen I just want to get to know him more. 21:40 Vaughn Madsen I've never. 21:40 Sean Finnegan Yeah. 21:41 Vaughn Madsen I didn't know there was. 21:43 Vaughn Madsen This guy is just an absolute gem and this church is, you know, supposedly a very, very wet work Bible only. 21:54 Vaughn Madsen Have thrown this guy out and I thought, man. 21:57 Vaughn Madsen I I thought he would be a passionate Christian. 22:00 Vaughn Madsen I was hoping he was but. 22:02 Vaughn Madsen My expectations were I'm just looking forward to getting to know him and other people. 22:12 Vaughn Madsen God is working. God is working. 22:14 Sean Finnegan It's exciting. 22:15 Vaughn Madsen Rapidly, rapidly and things are changing so far. 22:21 Sean Finnegan Well, von, let me let me ask you a question. 22:21 In. 22:24 Sean Finnegan You said in 2011 you started to look into the state of the dead. 22:30 Vaughn Madsen Yeah. 22:31 Sean Finnegan And then what year was it when you stopped believing in the Trinity? 22:35 Sean Finnegan You have any idea was that? 22:37 Vaughn Madsen 20 Yeah, 2013 2020, 2013 yeah. 22:39 Sean Finnegan 2013. 22:41 Sean Finnegan 13 or 4, OK, two years ago, other people started to change too. 22:46 Sean Finnegan So that would be 2022. So from 2013 to 2022 is 9 years. 22:53 Hmm. 22:54 Sean Finnegan You were like John the Baptist in the wilderness. 22:59 Vaughn Madsen Not quite sure from when I changed. 23:03 Sean Finnegan OK. 23:04 Vaughn Madsen I think there was four to five years. 23:08 Vaughn Madsen I didn't know anybody else who thought what I did after that. 23:12 Vaughn Madsen Started finding you guys OK on nobody. 23:17 Sean Finnegan But still nobody locally until David and Marlene, right? 23:20 Vaughn Madsen No. 23:21 Vaughn Madsen I found a couple of people just as I as I was evangelizing to people. I found a couple of people that were. 23:29 Vaughn Madsen Non trinitarian, but they they didn't have a church to go to and I and I don't even know where they are now, but I've met a couple of people, but they didn't believe in the Trinity. 23:39 Vaughn Madsen Weren't Jehovah's witness? 23:41 Vaughn Madsen They didn't have a church because they were. 23:43 Vaughn Madsen Were passionate Christians. 23:45 Sean Finnegan So let me try this again. 23:46 Sean Finnegan You have four to five years where you're more or less alone. 23:50 Vaughn Madsen Absolutely, absolutely. 23:51 Sean Finnegan And then how many years until Sharon came on board? 23:56 Vaughn Madsen And it would have been probably another four years, yeah. 24:01 Vaughn Madsen Other four to five years. 24:03 Sean Finnegan You know what she told me? 24:04 Sean Finnegan She. 24:05 Sean Finnegan Because I asked her about this when I was in the dining hall and she was in the kitchen area and I was standing, I I found myself standing next to her a lot. 24:15 Sean Finnegan That's where the desserts were. 24:18 Vaughn Madsen Yeah. 24:19 Sean Finnegan She was always near the nearby and so she said it wasn't really your logic or your reasoning. 24:27 Sean Finnegan Was that she saw you on your knees praying. 24:32 Sean Finnegan And saying God, I don't care what the truth is. I just want to know it. 24:39 Sean Finnegan She said that and she also said that she saw changes in you. 24:46 Sean Finnegan To be a better husband and be a better father, that's what she told me. 24:52 Vaughn Madsen That came from repentance and and I I I didn't even realise it, but I was living a life of idolatry. 24:59 Vaughn Madsen I did what changed my life as as knowing the truth is just reading the Bible. 25:06 Vaughn Madsen Reading the Bible and reading the Bible, looking for truth, and there's a lot of it I can't understand, but there's so much of it that is just so clear and plain. 25:15 Sean Finnegan So I think everyone was telling her that you were a false Christian, that you were lost. 25:21 Sean Finnegan Lost and what she was seeing was the opposite. What she was seeing was development, spiritual development where? 25:21 Vaughn Madsen Still going? 25:23 Vaughn Madsen Going. 25:26 Me. 25:30 Sean Finnegan Yeah, it made it impossible for her to believe that you had fallen away or that you were a heretic or something like that. 25:40 Sean Finnegan 'Cause she saw the genuine fruit. 25:40 Vaughn Madsen Yeah. 25:42 Sean Finnegan Fruit indicates a genuine tree. 25:45 Vaughn Madsen We know I did start preaching and the town's five years ago. 25:50 Vaughn Madsen I would be the most hated person in the in the town because it doesn't matter how you preach. If you go in there and you're preaching, I preach out loud. 26:00 Vaughn Madsen That there is hope through Jesus. People hate that and I've lost all my friends. But I did get my wife back because I became a better husband and a better person and I'm still working on that. 26:15 Vaughn Madsen I'm still working on that. 26:16 Vaughn Madsen I you know, I mean you know. 26:19 Vaughn Madsen Our goal is. 26:19 Vaughn Madsen Be Christ like and that's that that he said. 26:22 Vaughn Madsen Bar pretty high, didn't he? 26:23 Sean Finnegan Yeah, sure did. Yeah. 26:26 Hmm. 26:26 Sean Finnegan All right, well, tell just winding things down here. 26:29 Sean Finnegan Us about the last month since the conference. 26:33 Sean Finnegan Been going. 26:34 Sean Finnegan It sounds like you guys may be getting together to start a new church. 26:40 Vaughn Madsen Yeah, I I think after the conference call and as a team, you know I want to say Zach a lot, but I know Kaitlyn, Zach, are very much a A-Team together. 26:51 Vaughn Madsen They need each other. 26:53 Vaughn Madsen They've realized that men were not alone, and there are other people like us that don't live too far away. 27:02 Vaughn Madsen Zach is a. 27:03 Vaughn Madsen Bit like like me as well. 27:04 Vaughn Madsen He loves church. 27:06 Vaughn Madsen Zach loves. 27:07 Vaughn Madsen Zach and Caleb Love church. 27:09 Vaughn Madsen Zach loved preaching. 27:11 Vaughn Madsen Zach loved mentoring kids. 27:14 Vaughn Madsen They love music. 27:15 Vaughn Madsen Zach's a drama Kayla and a keyboarder. 27:19 Vaughn Madsen Kayla plays the guitar in the basement and I did that for church and I love it. 27:24 Vaughn Madsen Absolutely love it. They love putting. 27:28 Vaughn Madsen To bless people in church and they lost that. But now. 27:34 Vaughn Madsen Zach has realized, man. 27:36 Vaughn Madsen Let's start a Unitarian. 27:38 Vaughn Madsen And he knows best and he knows that it's not easy, but with the support of you guys since the conference with me, another couple of couples that are coming to our. 27:52 Vaughn Madsen Bible study at Cedar. 27:55 Vaughn Madsen And I think there's maybe 15 to 20 of us. 27:59 Vaughn Madsen Zeke is trying to figure out he's trying to figure out this puzzle of how can we get a church going and Zach and Kayla. They're renting a house. 28:08 Vaughn Madsen They they need an income. 28:11 Vaughn Madsen He's a qualified. 28:12 Vaughn Madsen Now he's just, you know, a qualified builder. And there's a lot of water to go under the bridge, but. 28:20 Vaughn Madsen I think Zach can see that it is a possibility and for where I'm at and where my two sons and their families are at on the farm. 28:29 Vaughn Madsen We all. 28:29 Vaughn Madsen It so bad we all want it real. 28:33 Vaughn Madsen And these other couples, you know, there's another couple of Alistair guy and these other couple of couples that we've met at the Unitarian. We've just got to figure this thing out. 28:43 Vaughn Madsen How do we do? 28:44 Vaughn Madsen Where do we move forward from here and what's it going to look like and? 28:49 Vaughn Madsen That's what. 28:49 Vaughn Madsen With Sharon's really excited about it as well. And. 28:54 Vaughn Madsen And the way we're going, we're gonna breed your own church. 29:02 Vaughn Madsen We've got in the last two years we've had six babies between. You know, I've got 6 grandsons and none of them are looking at stopping. So maybe we'll go to breed this chips, but we. 29:12 Sean Finnegan Hey, that's that's a viable evangelism. 29:16 Sean Finnegan I would not say a single bad thing against it. Having four sons myself, yeah. 29:21 Vaughn Madsen There you go. 29:22 Vaughn Madsen Yeah. So we're, we're excited, we're excited and in a way it's it's, it's not scary, but it's what we know that. 29:31 Vaughn Madsen It's not gonna be easy, but we know we've got support and we know we're not alone and and we know and I think really Sharon really knows now as well. 29:41 Vaughn Madsen God is on our side. 29:43 Vaughn Madsen God is on our side. 29:45 Vaughn Madsen Got God. 29:46 Vaughn Madsen We've got the true believers are on our side. 29:51 Vaughn Madsen You know, meeting this guy Alistair, and he, he came to our house and he spent, I don't know, half an hour. An hour talking with Sharon and they were just she's just blown away. And she realized that this is the man who's been kicked out. 30:02 Yeah. 30:06 Vaughn Madsen My brother. 30:08 Vaughn Madsen And she can see the suffering, but the fruit of this man's life and the passion of this. 30:15 Speaker 4 Man's life. 30:16 Vaughn Madsen The last couple years has been a crazy two years and I think the next two years is going to be even more. 30:24 Vaughn Madsen There's so much. 30:25 Vaughn Madsen The ball is rolling and we're just committing it to the Lord and and really excited for what God's got here in New Zealand. 30:33 Sean Finnegan That's awesome. 30:34 Sean Finnegan That's awesome. 30:35 Sean Finnegan Does Brother Zach want to say anything on on the recording before we close down or? 30:42 Sean Finnegan You don't, but I figured since you were talking to him, he seemed like he was right right there. 30:45 Vaughn Madsen That'll be, yeah, that'll be a good way to finish. 30:49 Sean Finnegan Don't. Don't go. 30:50 Sean Finnegan I gotta say goodbye to. 30:52 Sean Finnegan Don't. Don't leave me. OK, so, Zach, since we could just tag you in here, did you want to add anything to that? As far as, like, after effects from the conference, letting people know about. 30:52 Vaughn Madsen Yeah, yeah, yeah. 30:53 Vaughn Madsen Yeah. 31:04 Sean Finnegan What's going on? 31:04 Speaker 4 Yep. 31:05 Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean it's. 31:06 Speaker 4 Great. Sort of spot to sort of let people know who are, especially in New Zealand. Look, we from the conference. We've had some discussions with yourself, Shawn and Will Barlow and. 31:16 Speaker 4 And. 31:16 Speaker 4 Living hope specifically and what it would look like for us. 31:21 Speaker 4 To turn our Bible study that we've had into a more formal church or organization. 31:27 Sean Finnegan Yeah. 31:27 Speaker 4 And so. 31:28 Speaker 4 And I in the last sort of. 31:29 Speaker 4 Been really figuring out. 31:31 Speaker 4 That might look like and how we go about doing that. 31:34 Speaker 4 So we were at the moment as putting together a bit of a team to launch this church and so. 31:41 Speaker 4 We've got, we've got. 31:42 Speaker 4 People down and we're looking to meet early next year to come up with a plan, but we are all committed. 31:50 Speaker 4 To making something happen, it's it's pretty much where we've come to. We we want to see a church that is Unitarian and persuasion, but that we don't want that to be our defining thing necessarily. 32:00 Speaker 4 Want to be a, a church or a a congregation, that is. 32:04 Speaker 4 Faithfully following Jesus making disciples. 32:08 Speaker 4 Creating people. 32:09 Speaker 4 Are obedient to Jesus and and who love him and and want to grow. And I guess from our experience that finding churches that are just willing to look past some, you know everyone has different beliefs. But what we're here to do is find a group. 32:22 Speaker 4 Who just want to pursue? 32:25 Speaker 4 A holy life and love, Jesus and love God and yeah. And and. 32:28 Vaughn Madsen Yeah. Follow follow Jesus. 32:30 But. 32:31 Speaker 4 That's. 32:31 Speaker 4 And so we we really love what will did with his church plant with compass. 32:35 Speaker 4 So we're taking a lot of sort of. 32:39 Speaker 4 Direction from what? 32:40 Speaker 4 Done. And how you guys have gone about doing that and so it's real great. 32:44 Speaker 4 Don't have to do this. 32:45 Speaker 4 It's we're not the first ones. You know, there's someone for us and has given us direction, but these big questions we have to ask and what that looks like what what we want and what how it's going to work for our culture and our context you know. 32:59 Speaker 4 We're we're in New Zealand, we're not in America. 33:01 Speaker 4 So things are a little bit different. 33:03 Speaker 4 But look, we're we're really excited and we want to let people know, hey, this is coming. 33:07 Speaker 4 Know there is going to be a church. 33:09 Speaker 4 Yeah, and we're. 33:11 Speaker 4 Sure. How long? 33:12 Speaker 4 Hopefully sometime next. 33:14 Speaker 4 Will you find a building and we'll organise some first meetings. But at the moment we're just doing a Bible study and we're gonna look to meet every week in the new Year, start meeting on a regular basis. Just having a Bible study with communion and worship and some. 33:29 Speaker 4 Of those things added in and. 33:32 Sean Finnegan And have you guys made any progress on a way to like receive donations if people are interested in in giving or is that yet to come? 33:41 Speaker 4 I've so my uncle. He's helping. 33:44 Speaker 4 Actually, he's going to help me put together, like, a charitable trust a. 33:47 Vaughn Madsen OK. 33:48 Speaker 4 So we we are going to do that, but it will take some time to set up probably a couple months I would say. But you know just. 33:57 Speaker 4 New Zealand things take take time, but yeah, look, if people want to support what we're doing here, I just encourage them to get in touch with us regardless, whether it's financial or, you know in prayer or they want to know what we're doing in in new, maybe they. 34:11 Speaker 4 Some other resources. 34:12 Speaker 4 That they want to give you know that that's cool to you know, we'd appreciate any support in helping this time. 34:18 Speaker 4 Yeah, but yeah, we. 34:20 Speaker 4 We're just super excited to see where God leads. 34:22 Speaker 4 We're not 100% sure what's going to happen, but we know something's happening and Kevin and I are actually talking about this the other day, but it kind of gods doing something whether we like it or not. 34:34 Sean Finnegan Seems like there's momentum here, yeah. 34:35 Speaker 4 We just sort of. 34:36 Speaker 4 We're just. 34:37 Speaker 4 We're just hanging off. It seems like like since the, well, not even since ago. 34:42 Speaker 4 Since two years ago. 34:44 Vaughn Madsen Yeah. 34:45 Speaker 4 It's more than been saying this story, you know, since two years ago. 34:48 Speaker 4 Things have changed. Things have progressed. We've had. 34:50 Speaker 4 So many more people come out on Unitarian from just thinking it was just our family to now they're being, you know, 100 people come to a conference in new zeal. 34:59 Speaker 4 We're sitting here going. 35:01 Speaker 4 God is doing something and we just wanna. 35:03 Speaker 4 We don't wanna stop. No there from. 35:06 Speaker 4 We wanna help and we wanna give ourselves up to being tools for God to use. 35:12 Speaker 4 However. 35:12 Speaker 4 Happens. We just wanna be faithful with him. 35:14 Vaughn Madsen Yeah, will be obviously a Stephen Pipe as well, but no, it's it's we're good. 35:18 Yeah. 35:20 Speaker 4 With that, yeah. 35:21 Sean Finnegan All. 35:21 Sean Finnegan Well, thanks for popping in here. Zach Vaughn. 35:24 Speaker 4 That's all right. 35:25 Sean Finnegan Yeah, Vaughn, any concluding thoughts? 35:28 Vaughn Madsen God is good. 35:30 Vaughn Madsen Got. 35:30 Vaughn Madsen Good. Got it. Got. 35:31 Vaughn Madsen Faithful. If I had to do it for the rest of my life on my own, I would have. 35:36 Vaughn Madsen I know I would have the big churches that that I was a part of for so many years. 35:43 Vaughn Madsen And losing that is not even comparable to the people that I've got to know. Just in the last couple years, the people like the people that was at the conference. 35:54 Vaughn Madsen Like like I said, this is. 35:55 Sean Finnegan It's been worth it. 35:57 Vaughn Madsen It has been. There's a. 35:58 Vaughn Madsen We just feel like we're brothers and sisters is and you know, even if you haven't met, you're just like brothers and sisters and. And and it's hard to explain, but it's very, very real and we're excited. And I just give all all glory to God. I just give. 36:14 Vaughn Madsen Glory to God and and very very humble. 36:17 Vaughn Madsen That I've got it so easy now. 36:20 Just just. 36:21 Vaughn Madsen Just you know, I really. 36:22 Vaughn Madsen I really am so grateful and I don't know why it's not my doing. 36:26 Vaughn Madsen God's doing and it's it's very, very humbling to to. 36:30 Sean Finnegan Yeah you needed. 36:31 Sean Finnegan Be. 36:31 Sean Finnegan You needed to persevere. 36:33 Sean Finnegan You needed to press in. Follow his lead and then those prayers got answered, yeah. 36:35 Vaughn Madsen Yeah, yeah. 36:38 Vaughn Madsen Yeah, yeah, yeah. 36:40 Vaughn Madsen Yeah, and and to have a couple of light caterers, that man, I'm supporting them. 36:45 Vaughn Madsen Not supporting me, I'm supporting them. 36:47 Vaughn Madsen The old guy now. 36:49 Vaughn Madsen And I'll give. 36:51 Vaughn Madsen And these are the young people as well. You know, my two sons and their wives. And then other young people, that young, single men that are coming to our Bible book, men with God is doing things. And I'm just overjoyed with what God has done in the last. 37:07 Vaughn Madsen Years and it's amazing. 37:09 Vaughn Madsen And Sean, I'm looking forward to the Kingdom that you know, I mean. 37:11 Sean Finnegan It's going to be a lot of. 37:12 Sean Finnegan What you're telling? 37:13 Vaughn Madsen Oh, I can't wait. I can't. 37:16 Vaughn Madsen I can't. 37:17 Yeah. 37:17 Vaughn Madsen You know the the Kingdom will just be absolutely. 37:20 Vaughn Madsen It's going to be like our conference times millions and that's not far. 37:25 Vaughn Madsen So we've got to keep our eyes fixed on that and and faithfully do what we got to do our part, and that's all God's asking. 37:32 Vaughn Madsen Can't save the world, but we can just do what? 37:34 Vaughn Madsen Got for us, yeah. 37:36 Sean Finnegan Yeah. 37:37 Sean Finnegan Well, thanks for talking with me today. Appreciate it. 37:39 Sean Finnegan Unit. 37:40 Vaughn Madsen Bless you, Sean. Thank you. 37:46 Sean Finnegan That wraps up this interview with Von Madsen and also Zach Mayo. 37:51 Sean Finnegan I hope you enjoyed hearing their story and I plan to keep you updated with information about this budding community. 38:00 Sean Finnegan In New Zealand and opportunities to support them as they get launched, which is something that should be happening this year. So stay tuned for more about them. What you think about the interview. 38:12 Sean Finnegan View come on over to Restitudio org and find Episode 583 not alone anymore and leave your feedback there. 38:20 Sean Finnegan Someone named Ron wrote in on episode 5. 38:24 Sean Finnegan An honest evaluation of the evidence for the deity of Christ, and he said, Sean, you mentioned that 40 times in the Gospel of John Jesus is described as being sent by God. I think the count is John. 38:39 Sean Finnegan Baptist said it once. 38:41 Sean Finnegan Set it 39 times. 38:43 Sean Finnegan Well, Ron, I don't know why you want to challenge me on that, but challenge accepted. 38:49 Sean Finnegan Let's count them. 38:49 Sean Finnegan We got one in Charter 11 in Charter 3-1 in Charter 4/6 in Charter 55 in Charter 65, in Charter 75 in Charter 8. 39:00 Sean Finnegan One in Chaters 9/10 and 11/3 in Charter 12/2 and Charter 13, one in 14-1 in 15-1 in 16. 39:09 Sean Finnegan 6 inches, 17 and one inches 20. 39:14 Sean Finnegan Adding the mall U we get 42 times that Jesus says the father sent him. 39:19 Sean Finnegan I'm not sure how many times. 39:20 Sean Finnegan The Baptist said. 39:22 Sean Finnegan I remember it was in the prologue, but I'm not sure if there's more than that. 39:25 Sean Finnegan It might just be one or two. 39:27 Sean Finnegan Yes, 42 times in the Gospel of John, Jesus says the father sent him. I think that is a staggering statistic for a book that is so commonly used. 39:39 Sean Finnegan Used to teach that Jesus is God in a Co equal sense to the. 39:44 Sean Finnegan Other you are not Co equal or equal I should say. 39:50 Sean Finnegan If you're the messenger, that's just not how it works. 39:53 Sean Finnegan And this is something that even Trinitarians. 39:56 Sean Finnegan At least some of them recognize, such as Wayne Grudem, who teaches eternal functional subordination. 40:03 Sean Finnegan I would teach ontological subordination, not just functional subordination, but that's a topic for another day. 40:10 Sean Finnegan So Ron, I'm going to have to beg to differ. 40:11 Sean Finnegan Don't think it's 39. 40:12 Sean Finnegan Think it's 40. 40:14 Sean Finnegan And this is something that anybody can. 40:16 Sean Finnegan So you can go ahead and verify me on that, he continues. 40:19 Sean Finnegan Jesus gives the definition of the relationship of the sender to the one sent in John 1316. 40:25 Sean Finnegan Truly, I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him. 40:33 Sean Finnegan A great verse. 40:33 Sean Finnegan Thanks for pointing that out. 40:35 Sean Finnegan He continues when one considers that the slave is not equal to his. 40:39 Sean Finnegan The parallel is also true that one cent is not equal to the one who sends. 40:45 Sean Finnegan Oh, Ron, this is a great point. 40:46 Sean Finnegan For making it here. 40:48 Sean Finnegan This is what I call the doctrine of subordination, and I did a deep dive on this subject three years ago in an episode called the Father is greater than I'm exploring biblical subordination. That was #426. 41:04 Sean Finnegan So if you are interested in the biblical case for that, I have a thorough paper looking at all of the relevant verses from the Old Testament. 41:13 Sean Finnegan From the New Testament and then looking into the theology of. 41:18 Sean Finnegan Subordination. 41:20 Sean Finnegan And various debates within Christianity on that subject. 41:24 Sean Finnegan This I presented at the 1st. 41:26 Sean Finnegan Uca conference, which was in Tennessee back in, I think, 2021 so late 2021, so take a look at that if you're interested in this topic further. 41:39 Sean Finnegan So much for pointing it out, Ron. 41:40 Sean Finnegan Ron also goes on to talk about. 41:43 Sean Finnegan The verse where it says he made him, who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf and he continues in the comment to make the point. 41:52 Sean Finnegan That if Jesus is God, there's no way possible for him to become sin on our behalf. 41:59 Sean Finnegan Cannot become sin. 42:01 Sean Finnegan Which I think is kind of an interesting argument, kind of a difficult verse there. 42:05 Sean Finnegan Lots of thoughts on that. 42:07 Sean Finnegan Bill Slagel also wrote in good to know that Bill is listening. 42:11 Sean Finnegan Bill, love your brother. 42:13 Sean Finnegan He writes in saying he really enjoyed Vaughn's testimony and how encouraging it was to hear that he had come to believe in God, our father and in our Lord Jesus Christ. And then he defenses position on Hebrews 18 and John 2028. I'll leave it. 42:31 Sean Finnegan The listener, if you'd like to see. 42:34 Sean Finnegan He says there in his. 42:36 Sean Finnegan To translate Hebrews 18, God is your throne, like Psalm 18 and Psalm 73, where it says Yahweh is my rock and my portion is God forever. 42:48 Sean Finnegan So that's a good point. 42:50 Sean Finnegan A good point, Fairpoint. 42:51 Sean Finnegan And then in John 2028, he refers us to Jason David Badun's book Truth and translation, which, by the way, if any of you do not have that book, you just need to get it. 43:02 Sean Finnegan I don't know if it's in print anymore or if you just can get it free online, but this book is worth its weight in gold really had a huge impact on me. 43:13 Sean Finnegan I don't know 10-15 years ago. 43:17 Sean Finnegan Gosh. 43:19 Sean Finnegan I'll be honest, it was 20 years ago now that I'm looking at what year it is. 43:23 Sean Finnegan Time flies, huh? 43:24 Sean Finnegan But yeah, this is such a great book on translation, really in depth, very scholarly by somebody who is a legitimate. 43:33 Sean Finnegan He's actually a church historian who specializes in Augustine, but for whatever reason, he decided to write a book on translation and as a very good. 43:44 Sean Finnegan Reader of Greek he is in a good position to do that, so take a look at that book and what it says about John 2028 is what bill saying here. 43:53 Sean Finnegan Thank you. 43:54 Sean Finnegan Jeremy wrote in saying. I've just finished the entire series talking about Episode 481, early church history, Part 1, he says. 44:04 Sean Finnegan Just finished the entire. 44:06 Sean Finnegan I have to say this was probably the best presented historical breakdown of the church that I've seen in one place. 44:13 Sean Finnegan Fantastic job, historically accurate and wide-ranging in scope and coverage. 44:18 Sean Finnegan Presented graciously and well, I was impressed at the depth of study. Thank you. 44:22 Sean Finnegan Keep up the fantastically good work. 44:26 Sean Finnegan Thanks so much, Jeremy for those kind words. 44:29 Sean Finnegan It's kind of a funny thing, but I was running the stats on the Living Hope International Ministries YouTube channel for our end of the year. Letter a week ago. 44:41 Sean Finnegan It was really weird, but this series, the early Church history series, which I did in 2023, so not even last year. It was the year before last year. 44:53 Sean Finnegan You would think whoever was gonna watch her listen to it has watched her listen to it. 44:58 Sean Finnegan But in fact, in the rankings on the Analytics, 7 of the 10 most watched videos in 2024. 45:08 Sean Finnegan Were from the early church history class, which is so weird because the year before that wasn't the. 45:14 Sean Finnegan They weren't getting so many views, so for whatever reason I don't know if one of you shared this or somebody has a lot of friends that are really into church history. 45:14 Sean Finnegan It worked. 45:24 Sean Finnegan But whatever the case is, it's doing very well. 45:27 Sean Finnegan And episode 1 now has 15,000. 45:31 Sean Finnegan Which is certainly not breaking any records by YouTube standards. But let's face it, most YouTube videos are 30 seconds and incredibly and either humorous or you have huge watches for songs or. 45:48 Sean Finnegan Other kinds of cat videos or pranks and stuff like that. 45:52 Sean Finnegan This is long form. 45:53 Sean Finnegan This is a 41 minute video that doesn't have anybody dancing on stage or pyrotechnics. 46:01 Sean Finnegan It's. 46:02 Sean Finnegan It's just a dude in a dress shirt talking from a podium about ancient Christianity. 46:08 Sean Finnegan And so yeah, very. 46:10 Sean Finnegan Thanks so much Jeremy for the kind words and hopefully more and more people will listen to that series either on this podcast or watch it on the YouTube video because. 46:21 We. 46:21 Sean Finnegan Win when it comes to church. 46:23 Sean Finnegan I'm just going to say that right now. 46:25 Sean Finnegan Evangelicals in particular, but even mainline Christians a lot of times it pretty much any process. 46:31 Sean Finnegan They just don't care about church history now. 46:34 Sean Finnegan Course there are. 46:35 Sean Finnegan There are people who dig in, but by and large it's something that most of us are ignorant about. 46:41 Sean Finnegan Most of us who are not Catholics are just like, yeah, whatever. 46:44 Sean Finnegan They were all kind of Catholic back then until 500 years ago when we got back to the Bible. 46:49 Sean Finnegan It's not that simple. 46:51 Sean Finnegan It is not that simple. The 1st century has documents outside the New Testament that are incredibly helpful. Relevant like the dedicate and 1st Clement. The 2nd century is the most interesting period of church history, and it's the century about which people know and study the least. 47:09 Sean Finnegan In the 2nd century, we have Biblical Unitarians, we have Aryans, we have motelists, you know, we don't have Trinitarians. 47:17 Sean Finnegan How is that even possible? 47:19 Sean Finnegan Well, you have to check it out if you're interested in it because it is a really fascinating period of time to study those two centuries, 2nd century, 3rd century, before the advent of the idea that the father and the son. 47:34 Sean Finnegan Are of the same being or substance? 47:37 Sean Finnegan Which doesn't happen till the early 4th century, and it's not really worked out in a Trinitarian way until the end of the 4th century. So. 47:46 Sean Finnegan Some really interesting stuff. 47:48 Sean Finnegan There. Well, that's going to be it for this week. Next week, we'll begin my first Corinthians in context class with an episode called Corinth as the context. 48:01 Sean Finnegan And I hope you will enjoy this brand new class. 48:04 Sean Finnegan For this year, it's probably going to be 18 episodes, I think. So if you hate classes or you don't like first Corinthians, feel free to skip ahead. 48:15 Sean Finnegan While assuming you're listening to this later on. 48:18 Sean Finnegan Feel free to skip ahead for the rest of. 48:20 Sean Finnegan We're going to hunker down and we're going to figure out. 48:23 Sean Finnegan And I think this class is going to make the Bible come alive for you in a new and exciting way. As we delve into the context, the historical context, cultural context, religious context, and so forth of the city of Corinth specifically, and how Paul wrote to them and. 48:39 Sean Finnegan He engaged and navigated the different issues that are CONT. 48:44 Sean Finnegan Letter so stay tuned for that. I'll catch you next week if you'd like to support us, you can do that at restitudio.org. 48:50 Sean Finnegan Remember, the truth has nothing to fear.