This is the transcript of Restitutio episode 549: Read the Bible for Yourself 16: How to Read Revelation by Sean Finnegan

This transcript was auto-generated and only approximates the contents of this episode.

00:08
Hey there, I'm Sean Finnegan. And you are listening to Restitutio podcast that seeks to recover authentic Christianity and live it out today.

00:24
Revelation is a complicated book of the Bible. It contains some of the most incredible and awe inspiring descriptions of God's throne and the final paradise on Earth.

00:36
It also describes sinister mayhem, wanton destruction and toe curling persecution. How can we make sense of it? In today's episode, we'll go over the basics of authorship, audience, occasion, and purpose. Then we'll explore how revelation uses visionary symbols to convey truth.

00:56
Lastly, we'll go over 5 interpretive lenses through which you can understand the timing of the events in Revelation. We may not settle every issue in this episode, but my hope is that this overview will at least prepare you to read revelation for yourself.

01:12
Here now is Episode 549, part 16 of our read the Bible for yourself class. How to read revelation.

01:27
The New Testament has 27 books in it.

01:31
And.

01:33
We've looked through the 1st 26, we've studied the historical books and the Epistles, and now it's time for us to.

01:41
Tackle the Book of Revelation.

01:45
Que intense apocalyptic music.

01:49
Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun.

01:52
So the book of prophecy. So it is a little different.

01:58
And the first thing I want to do.

02:01
Is get our.

02:02
Bearings I want to run through these same points that we've looked at with the general epistles and ask the question of authorship, audience occasion, purpose, and mode, and probably spend the lion share of our time on mode. Like how is John going about accomplishing what he's doing but first authorship?

02:21
Who wrote revelation? It's not a big mystery.

02:25
It's right there in verse one. It says the revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place, and he made it known by sending his Angel to his servant John, who testified to the Word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.

02:46
This is a really interesting verse.

02:49
There's sort of like a chain of command here. It's the revelation of Jesus Christ, but God gave it to Jesus to show to the servants. That's like all the other Christians.

03:02
What must soon take place?

03:05
But how did Jesus do it while he's sitting Angel to John who?

03:09
Then.

03:11
Who testified to the word of God and everything that he saw. So God Christ, Angel John wrote it to everyone else. There's sort of like interesting chain of command, I guess if you could call it that.

03:28
Now when we ask about the author, we know that it's the servant John, right? But.

03:36
What John, which John? So is this the same as the John who wrote the Gospel of John and the first, second, and third epistles of John? Or is this a different John? Hard to say. I'll be honest. It's hard to say.

03:53
Later Christians mostly thought revelation was written by the apostle John, the same John who wrote the Gospels and 1st to 3rd John. But if you look at the style, it seems very different than the Gospel of John or the Epistles of John.

04:12
And.

04:14
You know, so maybe it.

04:14
Was.

04:15
John of the same name.

04:17
Or maybe maybe was a man with the same name who's a different guy. Or maybe it was just the apostle John. I I don't think it really matters too much for us for this, because the Book of Revelation is so different than the Gospels are the epistles that it's almost like whether it was the same person wrote it or not.

04:37
It's a whole different genre, a whole different style, and we should really just take it on its own and look at it as its own sort of thing.

04:47
Let's get some more information about the setting that says in Revelation 19. I John, your brother, who share with you the persecution and the Kingdom and the endurance in Jesus was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.

05:07
This gives us a lot of information we learn from this that there is something going on, some kind of persecution.

05:15
And we learned his location. He's on a tiny little island called Patmos.

05:20
This.

05:21
The context is persecution. And who's the persecutor?

05:28
The government, the Roman government.

05:30
The ZI BC says the Roman government, beginning with the emperor Nero, no longer considered Christianity as a sect of Judaism.

05:40
Which was a legal religion in the empire.

05:43
Instead, Rome began to view it as an undesirable foreign cult. That was a.

05:47
Menace to society.

05:50
John's testimony about Jesus Christ was viewed as a political crime and hence punishable under Roman law. His suffering was the price paid for obeying a different king and testifying to a different Lord, and this is something that's really important for you to realize about how Christianity interacted with the surrounding Greco-roman world.

06:10
And that is they have no separation of church and state.

06:15
There is no sensibility that says, oh, well, that's your religion. That's my religion. We can be friends, we can coexist. You know, like the coexist. Bumper sticker. Like, there's none of that. OK, your your religion and your politics are all mixed up together. So by saying Jesus is Lord and God has succeeded.

06:35
At the right hand of glory, and he has authority. You're challenging, Caesar. Who's claiming those same things?

06:43
So a religious claim can be interpreted by the Roman government as a political threat.

06:51
And I think the Christians would be honest to.

06:53
Say well look.

06:54
It is a political threat to you like he is coming back and he's going to take over your empire like they understood it as a political threat. But while he's still in heaven, Christians are seeking to live, as we saw with the pastoral epistles, they're seeking to live in harmony with society and to be well ordered and to be respectable and to pay their taxes.

07:15
And all the things that the government wants.

07:18
But nevertheless they suffered persecution. Exile to an obscure island was one of the more merciful forms of persecution in the Roman Empire. The least merciful form of persecution was crucifixion. That was literally the worst thing they could do to you.

07:34
But then they would behead you if you were a Roman citizen. And then if your punishment was less than that, you could be sent to the minds to work. Or you could become like a rower on one of the battleships, like in bend her. Or you could get exiled to an island is a lesser punishment.

07:52
The Roman Empire was massive.

07:55
And encompass the land around the Mediterranean Sea and Patmos is just one of these tiny little islands in between what we would call Greece and Turkey, and what's called the GNC.

08:09
And it's just off the coast of Asia Minor.

08:12
Asia Minor is the western portion of Turkey.

08:17
And it's not far from my elitist and Ephesus.

08:20
Patmos is only 14 square miles, and it's extremely important to begin by understanding the context. That's why I'm kind of getting into this Patmos as a place is not so significant as the fact that he's stuck on a little island because of his testimony. When you read the Book of Revelation.

08:38
You shouldn't think Ohh who are my enemies today?

08:42
And you.

08:43
If I'm the one speaking, I'm speaking as an American in the 21st century, and I might easily mistakenly think ohh well my enemies are Russia or China or you know, some other political enemy of the the country that I'm in. This is a bad way to read the Book of Revelation.

09:02
A much better way to read the Book of Revel.

09:04
Condition.

09:05
Is to think, who were John's enemies at the time? Well, he's literally an exile from the government of the Roman Empire. That's his context. That's where we start. If Revelation speaks to something in our time, great. But we're not going to start there and then read that in. You see what I'm.

09:23
Doing.

09:23
Here.

09:24
All right.

09:25
So.

09:26
Revelation was written either in the and I don't. I told you last time we're not going to date, but here I go. Here I go. It was either written during the 60s when Nero was emperor, or the 90s when the mission was the emperor. Both of these men were ego maniacal self.

09:45
Aggrandized ears, the omission actually had people call him Lord and God.

09:52
And Nero was a madman. I won't get into it. Emperor worship was becoming popular at that time, and cities would compete with each other for the honor of building a temple to the Emperor's family.

10:07
And then if they were granted that honor to build it at their own expense, then they would have a parade and they would March in idle through the city streets and they would have a sacrifice and they'd all eat red meat. It was a time of great rejoicing in cities that Christians did not participate in.

10:28
What's John's situation? Who is he writing to? What's his audience?

10:34
Well, let's look at the next first. First ten. I was in the spirit on the Lord's Day and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet saying right in a book what you see and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamon, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia.

10:54
And to lead the sea. That's my trumpet voice.

10:58
Who's it writing to?

11:00
This is as easy as it gets 7 churches.

11:04
What 7 churches? Ephesus. Smyrna, pergamum. This is great. It doesn't get better than this. We're only 10 versus 10. We already have the author and the audience. We didn't even.

11:14
Break a sweat.

11:15
Hebrews wouldn't give up anything about the audience.

11:17
Till chapter 10.

11:19
First, John never gave us anything about the audience. We were looking everywhere. We've got our magnifying glass out. Ohh John, you say anything about who you're writing to? Nope.

11:28
Here we are 10 verses and we know exactly little bit. These are actual cities.

11:31
You can go there today.

11:33
This is fantastic. This is as good as it gets.

11:37
Let's see. The first one was. Yeah. Ephesus. So Ephesus was the first one. So. And that's the closest to Patmos. So you get this document. The Book of Revelation and whether you have one copy or 7 copies and then each place they copy it themselves. I'm not sure exactly how this would work, but you get it over here to Ephesus.

11:57
And then the next church on the list was Smyrna, then Pergamum, then Thyatira, then Sardis, then Philadelphia, then Leo Decea. You see how it would just kind of go through a circuit, and then you would go back to Ephesus?

12:10
It's actually written out in the order in which a letter carrier would go to deliver it.

12:16
Which is pretty cool.

12:17
Now on to the occasion.

12:20
We have to look at what's going on in the churches. This also is easy. Thank God there's so much easy in the beginning of our efforts to read and understand the Book of Revelation cause it enjoy it while it lasts. That's all I'm going to say. So chapters two and three are so great to understand what's going on in.

12:37
These.

12:37
Churches we learn in Ephesus that they're enduring well.

12:41
That they're not growing weary, they have discerned false apostles well, but they're not loving.

12:48
We learned about the Church of Smyrna that they're afflicted in poverty, slandered by Jews facing imprisonment and martyrdom. Tough place in Pergamum. They're holding fast, though Anti Pass was martyred. That's one of the people in the church. They got killed for their Christianity.

13:06
And and program them. They're tempted with sexual immorality and idolatry. Idolatry is worshipping the the statues in the city like everybody else. It's just giving in to the culture.

13:18
In the context here, thyatira, they're loving, faithful, serving, enduring, but they are tempted with sexual immorality and idolatry and Sardis, their spiritually lethargic and lacking vigilance.

13:32
In Philadelphia, they're keeping faithful despite opposition and in legacy of their arrogant, wealthy and complacent. So.

13:39
Hello.

13:41
This is really helpful. We know exactly to whom this book is written. We know what's going on in all their different places and.

13:49
You know the good, the bad and the ugly.

13:52
Let's move on to purpose. What is the purpose of the Book of Revelation? Well, just what you would think to encourage these churches to live righteously.

14:02
And to.

14:03
Sure.

14:04
Simple as that. Those are their issues. Some of them are living unrighteously, some of them are persecuted. So what? What do you want to do? You want to convince them? Alright, give up the sin live righteously and don't allow the persecution to defeat you. You have to.

14:19
Endure.

14:20
So those are the purposes of the Book of Revelation.

14:24
But then we get to mode.

14:26
How does he go about accomplishing his purpose?

14:29
And this is where it gets interesting. Overall, John shows a spiritual perspective. Look at verse 12.

14:38
This is where it gets really interesting. Are you ready? Verse 12? Then I turned to see whose voice it was that spoke to me. And on turning I saw 7 golden lampstands.

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And in the midst of the lamp stands I saw one like the son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden.

14:55
Sash across his chest.

14:58
His head and his hair were white as wool.

15:02
White as snow. His eyes were like a flame of fire. His feet were like furnished bronze, refined as in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters.

15:15
In his right hand, he held seven stars and from his mouth came a sharp 2 edged sword and his face was like the sun shining with full force.

15:28
This is why revelation is hard. What are the seven golden lamp stands?

15:35
Who is the son of man? Why does he have a sword coming out of his mouth? And why can't you look at his face? He goes to look at his face and it's.

15:41
Like this sun?

15:42
Shining in his full force.

15:45
Hello that means you have no idea what?

15:47
He looks.

15:47
Like if you ever looked at the sun.

15:50
Well, let's continue verse 17. When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead.

15:57
That that's very logical. I would do the same thing, but he placed his right hand on me saying do not be afraid. I am the 1st and the last and the living one. I was dead and see I am alive forever and ever.

16:16
I have the keys of death and of Hades now, right, which you have seen. What is and what is to take place after this.

16:25
As for the mystery of the Seven Stars that you saw in my right hand and the seven golden lamp stands, the Seven Stars are the angels of the seven churches and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

16:40
OK.

16:42
This is important for the Book of Revelation in a way that there's almost no other books like.

16:48
It.

16:50
Symbols.

16:52
Symbols are the name of the game when it comes to interpreting the Book of Revelation.

17:00
I asked before what are the seven golden lamp stands? Well in verse 20 it says the seven lamp stands are the seven churches who are the seven churches? Well according to.

17:14
An earlier verse was at verse 7, the Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Satyros artist Philadelphia and later to see us. So now we know exactly what's going on. These visual items in this vision, these lampstands represent churches.

17:33
Well, that helps a lot.

17:35
And there's lots of other symbols in the Book of Revelation, like in Revelation 12/3 it says.

17:41
Then another portent appeared in heaven. A great red dragon with seven heads and 10 horns and seven diadems on his heads.

17:49
What?

17:50
Then you read down to verse nine and it says the great Dragon was thrown down. That ancient serpent who is called the Devil and Satan.

18:00
Huh.

18:02
Symbol defined. Super helpful. You're supposed to pick up on these as you read the.

18:07
Book of Revelation.

18:09
You have to realize there are two different planes. There's the spiritual plane of the visionary experience which is loaded with symbols, and these symbols are not normal things. They they're they're fantastic.

18:22
Plastic. There's no such thing as a red dragon with seven horns and 10 heads, not even in some like movieland. Do they have that? Probably. Well, maybe. Who knows, but.

18:33
It's like a fantasy genre, OK? And there's that level. And then there's the real historical level and these things correlate to each other, the visions, the symbols are relating to some reality. And if they give you the the interpretive key, it's important that you recognize it when it happens. Here's another one.

18:55
Revelation, chapter 20, verse 10 and the Devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and Sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and.

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Ever.

19:08
What's the symbol? The symbol in this case is not a single thing. It's not just a lake of fire, but it's an animation. It's a sequence of that Lake of fire tormenting the devil and the beast, and the false prophet forever and ever.

19:25
It's an animated symbol. Can you imagine that? It's not hard for us to imagine that. So that's what he sees in the vision. What's the corresponding reality verse? Eight of the next chapter. But As for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, the murderers, the sexually immoral, the sorcerers, the idolaters and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire.

19:45
Sulfur, which is the second death.

19:49
Ah, now we have the interpretation of the symbol.

19:54
So Christmas a Reed and they'll see just the simple and they'll be like, oh, you know, God plans to torture people forever and they're not reading the interpretation of the symbol, which is, this is actually a second death.

20:05
Here's one really helpful explanation by George Guthrie in his book read the Bible for life, he says.

20:12
Someone has drawn an analogy between the symbolism of revelation and political cartoons in our culture.

20:19
In which pictures represent a reality? They are not to be taken literally, but they are to be taken as pointing to of reality.

20:28
So for instance, I asked my student to imagine a political cartoon in which there is a wagon full of money with ropes tied to both ends of the wagon.

20:36
An elephant is pulling in One Direction and a donkey is pulling in the other direction. I asked them who in the room thinks that somewhere in America there's a literal elephant and a literal donkey fighting over a wagon full of money.

20:50
No one does, and I asked them, what does this represent? And they all know exactly what it represents because they are familiar with Republicans and Democrats in our political system, the picture is symbolic, but it points to a real situation in the world.

21:09
This is where a lot of troubles come in. In reading the Book of Revelation, you read the symbol as if it is the reality rather than as pointing to the reality, because unlike the ones that I just showed you, most of the symbols in the Book of Revelation are.

21:23
Not interpreted for you?

21:26
That's where the interpretational difficulties come in. Now, many of these symbols do come from the Old Testament.

21:33
So if you are familiar with the Old Testament, you're going to be able to make a lot more sense of the Book of Revelation. They say about 250 times the Old Testament is either directly quoted or echoed, alluded to.

21:49
Many of these symbols were readily understandable to the original audience, and you might not get it today because you're not living in that world.

21:58
So, for example, in Revelation 79, John sees a woman.

22:03
Who?

22:05
Is seated on a beast with seven heads. It's not the same as a.

22:08
Dragon this is a.

22:09
Different beast, OK.

22:12
There are multiple beasts in the Book of Revelation, so she's done a a beast.

22:16
And it says in Revelation 17/9 the seven heads are 7 mountains.

22:23
Now to you and to me. That's not like, oh, oh, there's no, there's no O moment for us. It's not like there's a place of seven mountains that we're like. Yeah, that's obviously referring to whatever. But to them, that would have been obvious.

22:38
This is from the BBC and T Grant Osborne writes at the outset. The Angel identifies the seven heads with seven mountains, a phrase often used for Rome in the ancient world because it was built on seven hills. And then he shows you all the citations from Cicero.

22:59
And from.

23:01
The city began with an amalgamation of groups living on the Seven Hills.

23:06
Aventine.

23:08
Kylian Capital Line, Equaline Palatine perennial Viminal Pooh and during Domitian's reign a festival the set to Montium celebrated it.

23:21
That sounds like a good Latin word, right? Seven mountains, SEPTA montium. And so look, if you were on an island being persecuted by the Roman Empire and you said, this this *****, this terrible woman is is riding this horrifying beast and the seven heads are the seven mountains.

23:43
People would be like ohh, you're talking about the city of Rome. You're talking about the Roman Empire.

23:48
And I have been to the Palatine Hill. It's, I think where if I'm not mistaken, I think that's where the Caesars had their palaces and it looked overlooked. The forum, the marketplace. And it's a place you can go visit as a tourist.

24:04
So getting the symbols is important. Many times they're interpreted for us, many times they are not.

24:10
I know I've said this probably 1000 times, but I'm gonna say it again. Read for the big picture.

24:15
Don't get stuck on some like what the locust is with the woman's hair. Like, I don't know.

24:21
Read for the big picture. OK, don't worry about this. I mean, look, if you're into it and you want to study it in depth, God bless you. But but I think get the big picture 1st and then figure out the details. What is the genre of the Book of Revelation?

24:37
The Book of Revelation is unlike any other book in the Bible, but it is also similar to other books of the Bible because it is from a genre called an apocalypse or an unveiling, an apocalyptic literature we also find in parts of Daniel, Ezekiel, and Zechariah.

24:57
So it's not like a total freak in the sense that it doesn't have any comparables at all, but no offense like Zechariah, who's like the closest but like revelation is like the next whole level of apocalyptic literature that Zechariah only wishes he could have written in his time. I mean, it's just like on steroids.

25:17
What is an apocalypse? The word apocalypse is to uncover something, so we're peeling back the curtain on reality to show God's spiritual perspective on what's happening. Using all these images in, you know, almost like a fantasy genre. If you think about it like you can't have.

25:37
Stars in your hand? It doesn't make any sense. You can't have a sword coming out of your mouth like this is. These are symbols like symbols. They make sense, like in a dream. It makes sense, but it doesn't make sense. If you like made it into a reality.

25:52
You can't have a sword coming out of your mouth, right? We agree on that. I guess there are some people that like pull it out like that, but I think it's going the other way. It's a symbol.

26:03
I think that's the big point.

26:05
So what is revelation doing? It's doing two things. It's looking at current events and it's looking.

26:10
At future events.

26:11
It.

26:12
Explaining what's God's perspective on reality and what is God planning to do, or other actors planning to do.

26:19
I'm going to come back to the locust for a second. OK. So in Chapter 9 it talks about locusts who are wearing golden crowns, have human faces, have women's hair, have lions teeth have iron breastplates and tails. That sting like scorpions.

26:36
Like, as I say, each one of those things I know in your head another part of the image is popping into existence in your mind, right? And then you get to like the the end of it, you're like.

26:46
So are they big or small? They're like small like locusts, are they? Big like horses, you know? And.

26:52
I.

26:52
Don't know. I mean, this is a composite image. It's. It's not. There's no like earthly analog for what he's talking about. It's a fantasy image. Let's talk about structure. What is the Book of Revelation? Well, that's actually fairly complicated.

27:09
Revelation I think technically is an epistle.

27:13
Because it. Yeah, I know. I said. It's prophecy, not an epistle this whole time. And now here I am saying it's an epistle. But like it says, John, to the seven churches, you know, like it has an epistolary component to it. And it was sent out to these churches. So we can say it's a, it's an epistle in that sense, in the sense that it was sent. It's a book of prophecy because it does talk about.

27:35
God's perspective on the present and the future, which all the books prophecy do, but more than either.

27:40
Those.

27:42
It's this apocalyptic genre.

27:45
And so let's talk about how the apocalypse unfolds. Let's look at a rough outline of the book.

27:52
So in chapter one we have the introduction chapters two and three. There are 7 many letters to the seven churches that are specific to each. One of those churches.

28:03
Then in chapter four and five, we get to the throne room of God and then in Chapter 5 the lamb enters the lamb represents Jesus enters the throne room.

28:14
Chapter 6 and seven, we get the seven seals. So in Chapter 5 there's introduced to scroll.

28:21
The scroll has these wax seals on it. Seven of these seals and nobody can open the scroll.

28:28
And and everybody starts weeping and they're.

28:30
Like, oh, we got this scroll and nobody.

28:32
Can open it and then it says the lion of the tribe of Judah has overcome. He has conquered and he will open the scroll and then he turns and instead of seeing a lion.

28:43
He sees a lamb.

28:45
As if it had been slain. So it's like bleeding or it has blood on it. It's it's. These are all symbols. Like they all mean important thing.

28:53
Thanks.

28:54
But as the lamb opens, each one of the seals, something happens, and those are the seven seals of chapters six and seven, the last of the seals. They hand out the seven trumpets. So that's chapters 8 through 11. Then we have this little bio of the dragon, the beast and the false Prophet in chapters 12 and 13.

29:14
Sort of like a segue and then in Chapter 14 we learned about the 144,000 and then in chapters 15 and 16, we return to the series of sevens. So we have 3 sevens.

29:28
In the heart of the Book of Revelation, and each one of these sevens, the seven Seals, the seven trumpets and the seven Bowls of wrath ends with Christ coming back in Judgment Day.

29:40
So you should not think of them as chronological. You should think of them as more like overlays. Where these. These are just a different angle to see the same reality or to fill in more information because they all end in the same place. Then in Chapter 17 and 18, there's a judgment on Babylon.

30:00
And then in Chapter 19, Christ comes back. Well, Christ also came back at the end of Chapter 11.

30:05
Just for the record, so it's.

30:07
A little confusing, but yeah, Christ comes back and there's Armageddon in chapter 19. Then we get the Millennium, Chapter 20 and then 21 and 22 is paradise on Earth, and then the whole last part of chapter 22.

30:19
Has all these really great exhortations to live righteously and and to endure in your faith.

30:26
So revelation is.

30:29
It's kind of like augmented reality and we and we have this technology finally emerging where you can have goggles and it will, it will project onto the reality of your what you're looking at something digital, right. That's the way revelation is. It's like it's like overlaying this boring old reality with all these like.

30:49
You know, colorful, cartoonish images to teach you these, these truths, and basically it's showing you the forces behind the spiritual forces behind the political realities.

31:03
All right. So let's talk about interpretive lenses. There are, as you probably know, several different ways to take the Book of Revelation.

31:14
One is to think of it as referring to the Roman Empire.

31:19
And people hold this view because.

31:24
Like I mentioned before, it says the seven heads are the seven mountains and that to them would have referred to Rome, the city itself, and they're the the number 666600 and 66 that that works out to Nero.

31:40
Or let me, I should say it the other way, Nero's name. If you add up the value of the letters in his name adds up to 666. So people say Oh well, this is obviously a reference to a coded reference to Nero, the Emperor who was persecuting Christians, probably killed Paul and Peter. Just so you know, Nero is very evil. And there are also all these timing.

32:01
Statements which I'm going to come back to in a minute where it's saying like even right from verse one like this is going to happen soon. This is going to happen shortly. Time has been short.

32:11
And so people saying, OK, revelation entirely pertains to the to the Roman Empire, and that's the idea that they call preterism a preterist is somebody who believes everything has happened in the past.

32:24
There are really two kinds of preterists. There are some preterists who say all of the Book of Revelation has already happened.

32:33
And these these are living people like I I know somebody who believes this. OK, multiple people that believe this. You asked him. OK well, if Jesus Christ started came back like, what's the point? Like, what are we doing here? And he's like, I don't know, we don't really have a point.

32:48
Some will say that other other full predators will say well, no, you still gotta live righteously and hopefully that you'll have a good afterlife or something.

32:56
Sets the full preview. The partial predators view says pretty much everything that happened except for Christ coming back is for the Roman Empire, but Christ coming back is still a future event, and that's much more common in Christianity. If you go full predators a lot of times you're not really.

33:12
A Christian anymore.

33:14
I mean there there's some wiggle room there.

33:16
So I know some that are on both sides of it, but yeah, partial preterism is much more common, but it's somewhat awkward because if you read the Book of Revelation, you get to chapter 17 and 18.

33:27
And it's all this about Babylon, this great empire, this great city, and and it's it's controlling commerce and you know there's all these sins associated with it and and and like you ask yourself, well, OK. Well, if that's Rome who destroys it and then you get to chapter 19 and Jesus comes back and destroys.

33:44
And you're like, hmm?

33:46
There doesn't seem to be a like a.

33:48
The easy break between the judgment on Babylon and the coming of Christ.

33:54
And so that and that's kind of an awkward thing for the Roman Empire perspective to deal with. And in fact the the main book I've depended on for this class, how to read the Bible for all its worth by the and Stewart, they hold this view and they recognize the awkwardness of it when they say our difficulties lie with that other phenomenon of prophecy.

34:14
Namely that the temporal word is often so closely tied to the final eschatological realities. Eschatological means in time.

34:23
This is especially true in the Book of Revelation, the fall of Rome in Chapter 18 seems to appear as the first chapter in the final wrap up, and many of the pictures of temporal judgment are interlaced with words or ideas that also imply the final end as part of the picture, there seems to be no way.

34:42
No one can deny the reality of this, so this is them squirming in their chairs a little bit saying this. I'm uncomfortable with this. What you're gonna do so.

34:51
That's kind of like the big problem. It's a common view in more recent scholarship, is to say revelation is about the Roman Empire, but it does have this one big problem. It's like, well, why didn't Jesus come back during?

35:05
The time of.

35:05
The Roman Empire, if this was all related to them, and if you think Jesus did come back and establish a Kingdom.

35:12
Why is there so much evil in the?

35:14
World why is?

35:15
The world, the kind of way it is that we see with our eyes. Why is there still war, suffering, sickness and death?

35:21
All right, position #2 is to look at revelation through the lens of church history, and this is often called the historicist approach, and that is the idea that everything up until the coming of Christ has happened, but not necessarily in the Roman Empire. Some of it maybe happened in the Roman Empire. Some of it happened 100 or.

35:42
500 or 1000 years later, as Christianity continued to develop, and so instead of seeing the seven churches as the ones I showed you on the map as historical, the seven churches are also symbols of seven periods of time that the church goes through.

36:01
And the four horsemen are 4 stages of the Roman Empire, and that's just the beginning of the seven seals. The four Horsemen, I think, are the first seal, if I'm not mistaken.

36:14
The people who take it this way are overwhelmingly Protestant, not Catholic.

36:19
And a lot of times they will. What will at least became popular in the 16th century was they started to see the Pope.

36:28
And the the office of the Pope, the series of popes as the beast, the Antichrist figure in the Book of Revelation.

36:35
It's lost favor overtime, but it there are still people that hold this view and that think the beast is whoever the current Pope is in the Vatican today.

36:48
All right. On to the next one. And that's the idea that revelation is about a future empire, and that's the idea that Chapter 6 and onwards have not yet happened, yet they have not yet happened and they are going to happen at some unknown future dates because of the destruction of the beast in Chapter 18.

37:08
Since the final Kingdom anti Christian Kingdom is contemporaneous with the coming of Christ, we shouldn't divide the end times from what comes before it. We should we should keep it all together and recognize that it's all future.

37:24
Like the Roman Empire, view this view at least is consistent in holding things together as much as it can. But if everything is future, you run into real problems with these timing statements. So.

37:41
As I mentioned to you before you, you really should read Revelation from the point of view of.

37:46
The 1st century and John who wrote it and the situation of his time, there's no way in the world they wouldn't think. This refers to the Roman Empire.

37:55
Especially when you read statements like Revelation 1/3, the time is near 311. I am coming soon. It's 2000 years soon.

38:04
He knows that his time is short 1212227. See, I am coming soon 2210 do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book for the time is near 2212. See, I'm coming soon.

38:19
And 2220, surely I am coming soon. You, you. You get an impression from the Book of Revelation that there's this is this is happening. This is we need to focus. We need to be vigilant. We need to get righteous. We need to get right with God because I don't know what all this stuff means. But it's happening so.

38:39
The futures position really struggles with these timing statements because soon means a long time in the future.

38:46
Also, the Futurist interpretation struggles with.

38:50
Certain symbols, like the mark of the beast, do you know how many interpretations futurists have put on the mark of the beast?

38:58
Let me give you a.

38:58
List the mark of the beast is.

39:01
Social Security numbers.

39:02
It's credit cards.

39:04
Ohh no I don't. It's a barcode tattoo.

39:08
No, no, no, no, it's a QR code tattoo. No, no, no, no, no. It's a 666 tattoo on your forehead.

39:16
No, it's not that it's paying with your phone. That's the mark of the beast right there. No, no, no, no, no, no. It's it's an embedded chip in your hand.

39:24
Right.

39:26
No, it's satellite tracking. No, it's it's, it's your avatar in the future. Virtual reality empire. OK, look, everybody's got an idea of what it is, but the problem is, these are all ad hoc. They're all just made-up on the spot because there's speculation that you just.

39:42
Make it up.

39:43
And so that's kind of or cryptocurrency, that's the mark of the beast.

39:46
With Bitcoin, so the other problem with with futurism?

39:52
Is that futurists?

39:54
Tend to predict the end of the world and get it wrong over and over, and that's really embarrassing for all of us. Let's be honest. All right, on to the next one allegory.

40:05
The allegory views see all the symbols as expressing universal spiritual truths that interpret the symbols as an ongoing struggle between good and evil. It's a way of interpreting it that doesn't that kind of like takes the timing aspects out of it and almost looks at everything as as a permanent eternal reality. This, like ongoing struggle between.

40:25
Put an evil in every empire through all time.

40:28
I I think it has some problems with it. There's a lot of movement, there's a lot of forward movement in the Book of Revelation. I think there's, I don't think Revelation is strictly chronological. I think there are like overlays and cycles of time because the 777, right. But there is a forward movement. We do end in Paradise, you know, in a new heavens and a new Earth.

40:48
Like it's not. It's not like just talking about everyday life, and it's took this allegorical view. It's not clear to me how this would relate to the people at that time. How how would they have known this is an allegory. It's not obvious.

41:05
Well, anyhow, it's pretty unpopular today the allegorical view, so I'm not going to spend too much time on it.

41:11
You know, they say always put your view last when you go through a list of interpretational options. So this is my view. I'm calling it the two horizons view, and I'm a both hand kind of guy. So what I'm going to say is.

41:26
Is there a way? Is there some way that we can take the Roman Empire interpretation and the future Empire interpretation and say?

41:35
You're both right.

41:38
The two horizons view is going to see the value of revelation for the original audience, to whom John wrote. It is recognizing. Yes, you would have understood this as relating to your own time. That's correct. That's part of the package, but it also represents a future empire that the Roman Empire only foreshadows.

41:58
And only in a partial way and the future empire is going to be even more so. And they're both.

42:04
True. So that's the kind of strategy that I take with it. The Roman Empire is an application, but it doesn't exhaust the meaning of the Book of Revelation. At some point in the future, there's going to be a recapitulation of these events in a different empire that will persecute Christians and then be destroyed by the coming of Christ.

42:25
So that's the view I lean towards. It's a way for me to have my cake and eat it too.

42:32
Is that the right way to say that they do that right? I just think it's the other way. Eat my cake.

42:37
And have.

42:37
It, too. Yeah, whatever.

42:40
But you know, you figure it out. Good luck.

42:44
Let's come to what we know for sure.

42:47
Revelation is a good book for you to read.

42:50
I want to end with some encouragement, not just uncertainty. Don't get scared off from reading revelation. It gives you a blessing.

43:01
Blessed is the one who reads the words of the prophecy, and blessed are those who hear and who keep what is written in it for the time is near Revelation 1/3.

43:11
Revelation includes many encouraging promises and visions of the future. Revelation explains that God sees our suffering, that God plans to do something about it, and that he's allowing it to go on for a limited time until in the end, he wins.

43:31
You look at the last two chapters of the Book of Revelation is glorious.

43:37
This is spectacular vision of the Kingdom of God. It says in revelation 21.

43:41
Three.

43:42
And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, see the home of God is among mortals. He will dwell with them.

43:51
Kind of reminds me of the Garden of Eden. They will be his peoples, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. Death will be no more mourning and crying and pain will be no more. For the first things have passed away.

44:09
Chapter 22, verse 3. Nothing accursed will be found there anymore, but the throne of God and of the lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him. They will see his face and his name will be on their foreheads, and there will be no more Knights. They need no light of lamp or sun for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign.

44:31
Forever and ever.

44:33
Revelation might be difficult, but it it's still worth your time to read, and especially the ending. These are these are words that give us hope and times of grief when we lose a loved one when we are coming to our last days read revelation, you know, maybe you don't understand everything, but it it it it at least gives you.

44:53
Very hopeful ending.

44:55
Alright, let's review.

44:57
It's important to remember that John wrote revelation within the realm of the Roman Empire, when persecution from the government was a real threat. He was likely in exile on Patmos.

45:08
John addressed the churches in Asia Minor, a province of the Roman Empire in Western Turkey. Much like political cartoons, it is essential to recognize the distinction between the symbols in revelation and the reality to which they point.

45:23
Revelation is an apocalypse or an unveiling of God's perspective on current and future events.

45:30
Predators teach that the visions of revelation such as the seals, trumpets and bowls refer to events that took place in the Roman Empire. Historicists see these same visions unfolding throughout the history of the church. Futurists believe these visions pertain to a future time when they will play out as described in revelation the two horizons.

45:50
View sees fulfillment in the Roman Empire, which foreshadows the future fulfillment at the end just prior to Christ's return.

46:00
And lastly, Revelation contains many terrifying visions of human suffering and death, but also hope for the future. When God makes everything wrong with the world, right.

46:11
Well, that wraps up our survey on the major sections of the Bible. We've gone through the law, Old Testament history, wisdom literature, the Book of Psalms, the Prophets, the Gospels, the book of Acts, Church epistles, pastoral epistles, general epistles, and now revelation.

46:31
Wow, 66 books. What a library, huh? It's incredible.

46:35
Are you still here?

46:37
So I did also want to cover two other sessions on that. It's kind of like an appendix to this class on how how to pick a Bible translation and talk about translation and then another one on Bible study tools. So we'll look at translations next as we continue.

46:57
In our class on how to read the Bible for yourself.

47:04
Well, that brings this episode to a close. As I mentioned, I've got two more left in this class and read the Bible for yourself, and I imagine that the next two will be of great interest to many. I can't tell you how many times I get the question about Bible translation and which translations are good and which ones to stay away from, so I'll be getting into that.

47:26
Next week, if you have any thoughts or comments.

47:29
Comments on this week you can go over to restitutio.org and find Episode 549 how to read Revelation and leave your comments there on our episode last week how to read the general epistles, Mikey, Blessed wrote in.

47:47
Saying the end is near, keep your Bible on your hip. Scripture on your tongue.

47:53
Worship music in your head.

47:55
Jesus in your heart.

47:58
Focused on the Holy Spirit, the father and the Kingdom.

48:02
This comment is kind of interesting in light of today's episode that about the Book of Revelation, especially how he started his comment by saying the end is near.

48:14
And this is something that Christians will say from time to time, the end is nigh, or the end is near, or the end is at hand, and so forth. And I wonder if it does more good than bad. In all honesty, either to ourselves or to outsiders who are looking at Christians predicting the end.

48:34
Saying the.

48:35
Is near and then a year passes. A decade passes a century, passes a Millennium passes.

48:42
We're still saying the same thing, so I I think it would give us, I I think it would be helpful for us to.

48:50
Tone down that rhetoric of confidently saying we're in the end times or the end is near. You know, there's a war on in Israel, but there were wars in Israel in the 40s and the 60s in the 70s, and there were the intifadas in the 2000s.

49:09
War in Israel does not necessarily mean it's the end of the world. I think we know that for sure by now. If you have studied any history of modern Israel or ancient Israel. But I do get this sentiment, though, that we should live as if the end is near because we want to be vigilant.

49:29
We want to be found awake. We don't want to fall asleep at the switch.

49:35
And get lazy or complacent, and I certainly affirm the need for vigilance in our faith and following Christ closely day by day and reading the Scripture and contemplating on it and having it on our mouth, on our tongues, and worship music in our heads. I think that's all great.

49:55
And I do appreciate that. But I just wanted to mention this whole end is near. It's like well, first of all, how do you know that? And second of all, considering the fact that everyone who's ever said that has been wrong so far?

50:05
Or why are you so confident? You know, I wonder if we'd be better served to shift the focus from a threat that the end of the world is at hand to, instead saying we have such an opportunity to embody the future that God has already initiated in Christ and will eventually bring to this world.

50:27
When Jesus returns and focusing more on the opportunity that we have to live as Kingdom citizens today.

50:36
Someone named working dude, #1 wrote in saying. Isn't the Bible God breathed who actually wrote each book is not an important issue.

50:48
Well working dude #1I disagree with you and you know what? We could still be friends even if we disagree on this point.

50:56
He is saying that because God inspired scripture, it doesn't matter who the human author is. With respect, I strongly disagree. I think it very much matters who the human author is, because then we can better understand what's going on on the basis of the other books that same human.

51:17
Author wrote.

51:19
And this really goes back to one theory of inspiration. I do not hold to a dictation theory of inspiration. I do not believe that God spoke out the words, especially of the church epistles, which is what this person is referring to.

51:33
Or the general epistles. I don't think God spoke out the words of the Epistles in the apostles ear, who then just served as a glorified secretary to write them down. Do you think God really would need a person to write it down if he was going to have that level of control on it, he could just write it down himself. He's God come.

51:54
The reason to have human authors is because God chose to have human authors and by us saying the human author doesn't matter. We're saying the way that God in fact did scripture and had it produced is not relevant and doesn't matter who, who are we to raise our fists to God and say the way that he did it is?

52:15
He did not dictate the scripture. We know that for sure. We know it's inspired. We know that God's behind it. We know that we can have confidence in scripture because what he wanted written got written. But when you read the actual words that these people said, it's clear that that person is writing from their point of view. Let me give you a couple of quick examples.

52:34
In first Corinthians Chapter 7, the apostle Paul addresses the question of the Corinthian Church on whether or not they should have sexual relation.

52:43
And also the question of marriage should they get married should they? Is divorce allowed? Under what conditions? And so forth. So first Corinthians 710 Paul says to the married I give this command, not I but the Lord that the wife should not separate from her husband. But if she does separate, let her remain unmarried.

53:02
Or else be reconciled to her husband and that the husband should not divorce his wife.

53:07
To the rest, I say I am not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her, then skipping down to verse 25, he says now concerning virgins. I have no command of the Lord, but I give my opinion as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy. I think that in the view of the impending.

53:28
Crisis. It is good for you to remain as you are, and he goes on.

53:32
From there so look.

53:34
Did God dictate to Paul to say these words? Not I, but the Lord, not the Lord, but I. And then, in my own opinion, I have no comment from the Lord to God dictate those words for him to say. Or is he writing a letter with God's help through the spirit that's within him, in order to instruct?

53:54
These believers on how to live, I think it's the second one. I think when you flatten all scripture out to be essentially prophecy.

54:02
Then you have real problems, because then you have Paul saying in first Corinthians 114. I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that none of you may say you were baptized in my name. I did baptize also the household of Stephanus. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.

54:22
What is this? Does God not know who Paul baptized? This sounds like he's dictating a letter, doesn't it? It sounds like he's dictating a letter and he's listening off a couple of names. And he's like, oh, yeah, then also stephanis. And I, I don't know if there was anybody else. Maybe.

54:39
Was that's not the main point. The point is Christ isn't sending me to baptize, but to preach the gospel message. And you get lots of these kinds of statements throughout the epistles, and you have to dehumanize them. If you think this is all prophecy, look, there is such a thing as prophecy. There is such a thing as dictation. If we can put it that way.

54:59
It's called the prophecies of like Isaiah and Jeremiah. Not everything in.

55:03
Those books, but.

55:04
Large tracts of those books.

55:07
Is legitimate. I believe prophecy. Where God, where where the Prophet says. Thus says the Lord and then quotes the Lord as is fitting for a prophet. And so to normalize that and say, well, everything is the same as that is really not taking our Bibles seriously and recognizing what God is actually doing throughout. There's a variety of different genres.

55:30
In Scripture, it's not all prophecy. The Epistles are inspired and authoritative.

55:36
With God's spirit was at work within the authors, but they also had their own brains functioning and as a result we do benefit from understanding the history of that person. What's that person been through as recorded in the Gospels or in the book of Acts, and also the other literature as part of that person's corpus?

55:57
To help explain difficult verses in one letter that are better explained in another letter and so forth.

56:04
So so that's my response, yes is God breathes. And yes, it matters who wrote it. I don't think it's typically going to be anything on the level of a salvation issue. If you can't figure out authorship, like for example with Hebrews, we really just can't figure out authorship, not with any certainty.

56:24
I think you're fine. We're going to be OK.

56:27
But it is a worthwhile question to consider, and a worthwhile field of study. Now I do want to also make a remark about the more liberal, quote, UN quote, critical approach to biblical studies, where the scholar will just fuss over the question of authorship. This is something I saw at seminary.

56:47
Where I attended a very liberal school and really that's all they did in their survey classes was just fuss over authorship and dating, and they never really got to the content of what was.

56:59
In the book.

57:00
And I think that is to go too far with it and to dissect it and be skeptical of everything that's not at all what I'm trying to do in this class. And that's not at all what I think is going to be helpful to you as somebody reading the Bible. The rule of thumb that I think you should take with you is to read it.

57:20
Charitably to say look, this person probably didn't make a mistake. This person's probably not an idiot. These documents have been preserved and read by literally billions of people over thousands of years. They probably have some.

57:35
Excellent quality to them and you know, at least with a minimum of starting with that.

57:41
And I think as you read the Bible, even if you're a skeptic, as you read the Bible, you will pick up on the inspiration of God behind it. And I think if you read the Bible and study history, that contrast would become all the clearer as you read the Old Testament over against ancient Near Eastern documents. As you read the New Testament over against Greco-roman literature.

58:01
You'll see just how weird the Bible is and how it does bear the fingerprints of God who's inspiring the different.

58:09
So those are some thoughts on that. Thanks everybody for listening. If you'd like to support us, you can do that at restitutio.org. We'll catch you next week. And remember the truth.

58:19
Has nothing to fear.