This is the transcript of Restitutio episode 521: The Deity of Christ from a Greco-Roman Perspective with Sean Finnegan

This transcript was auto-generated and only approximates the contents of this episode.

Sean Finnegan:
Hey there, I'm Sean Finnegan and. You are listening to Restitutio podcast that seeks to recover authentic Christianity, And living it out today. Let's face. The New Testament probably calls Jesus God a couple of times, and so do early Christian authors in the 2nd century. However, no one offers much of an explanation for what they mean by the title. Did early Christians think Jesus was God because he represented? No way did they think he was God because he shared the same eternal being as the. Father, did they think he was a God? Because that's just what they call any immortalized human who lived in heaven. In this presentation, I focus on the question from the perspective of Greco-roman theology, drawing on the work of David Litwa, Andrew Perryman, Barry Blackburn and tons of ancient sources, I seek to show how. Mediterranean converts to Christianity would have perceived Jesus based on their cultural and religious assumptions. I should also mention that this is a recording from the 3rd Annual Unitarian Christian Alliance Conference, so I've left in the introduction and the questions and answers from the end of it here. Now is episode 521, the deity of Christ from a Greco-roman perspective.

Brandon Duke:
Sean Finnegan serves as the lead pastor of Living Hope Community Church near Albany, NY, and is the President of Living Hope International Ministries, a network of churches and home fellowships dedicated to making disciples of all nations. He's also the host of restitution of a weekly podcast focused on restoring authentic Christianity. And living it out today, he holds a Masters of Theological studies in early Christian history from Boston University, a Bachelors in theology from Atlanta Bible College, and a Bachelors in computer engineering from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute. Finnegan also serves as an adjunct professor at Atlanta Bible College and is the author of many articles on issues of Christian theology and biblical studies, and he currently sits on the board of the Unitarian Christian Alliance and lives with his family in New York. Please help me welcome Pastor Sean Finnegan.

Sean Finnegan:
Good morning. My topic is the deity of Christ from a Greco-roman perspective, and I intend to puzzle over the question. Did early Christians believe Jesus was a God, and that question depends on what do you mean by early Christians? How early? I mean somebody who lived 500 years ago was an. Early Christian compared to us. Right. And then also the question of what do you mean by God because that can have a lot of different definitions as well. The obvious place to start to answer a question like this did early Christians believe Jesus was a God? Is the New Testament itself? But there's only a handful of verses in the New Testament that might call Jesus God or a God, and I'd like to read to you a little quote from Christopher Kaiser, who wrote explicit references to Jesus as God in the New Testament are very few. And even those few are generally plagued with uncertainties of either text or interpretation. A number of. Other scholars have likewise said the texts that might call Jesus God are problematic for a variety of reasons. For example, Raymond Brown. Jason David Badoon, Brian Wright and Peter Nagel have expressed similar ideas. So. It's difficult to get at this question from a New Testament perspective, but even if you were to grant that one or two, or maybe three of the verses in the New Testament do in fact call Jesus God or a God. You still have the question. What do you mean by that? And for that question, we're really at somewhat of a loss because in none of the verses where Jesus seems to be called God in the New Testament, does anyone give an explanation? And what they mean by that. So we turn our eye to the data in the 2nd century and look at those early Christians and we find that once again, there are lots of problems in, in particular, textual problems, manuscript issues, especially with Ignatius of Antioch. Ignatius of Antioch has three versions of his writings that have been preserved. The shorter the middle and the longer recents. And although it's typical for scholars today to say, oh, the shorter and the longer versions of Ignatius are hopelessly corrupted, they naively a lot of times believe. That the middle recension is like a field of freshly fallen snow, upon which a foot has never trodden, which I think is totally unrealistic. And if you're curious about that scholar named Paul Gilliam, the third recently released a monograph called Ignatius of Antioch in the Arian controversy. So I don't think. We can just. Hang out in. The writings of Ignatius and say, well, Ignatius sounds like a 4th century Christian, so 4th century Christian theology must have been there in the second. Century. Well, I think there's a reason why he sounds like a 4th century Christian. Because 4th century Christians used his writings and Co opted and corrupted them in the process of their own Christological Civil War. We can also look at another early Christian named Polycarp, who wrote an epistle to the Philippians. And once again we find only. Really, one instance where he calls Jesus God. And guess what? There's a textual issue and some manuscripts. He doesn't call Jesus God and in others he does. And then we we move a little later and we find more instances of early Christians calling Jesus God. But once again, we don't get explanations on what. They mean by that. So if these people are calling Jesus God or a God, what could they have meant? I'd like to propose that there are two different ways of looking at the question. What do you mean by calling Jesus God, the Hebrew worldview and the Greco-roman worldview? And before I get into the contrast of these two, I will. We readily admit. That there was lots of interchange between. Jewish people in the region of Israel in the 1st century in the 2nd century and Greco-roman ideology. OK, so I I'm holding these two things as as a contrast, but I recognize that there is lots of interchange in the period where we study. So from the Hebrew worldview perspective, what does it mean to call? Jesus, God. Well, in the Hebrew mind, Yahweh God Almighty can designate a human representative to bear the divine title. That's something that happens in the Hebrew. He did this with Moses, the judges of Israel, his divine counsel, the King of Israel, for example, in Psalm 45-6, the court poet calls the King of Israel God, and it's just like, whoa, what is going on here? Well, the king is God's representative on Earth, and so he bears the divine. Title in that role. Now this is an understanding that's present in. The Bible, but it's all. But gone from Christian authors after the New Testament, which makes me so sad because it's even Jesus himself used this as an argument in John Chapter 10 when he was up against the fence and they were saying, well, you're saying you're a God. And Jesus says, well, doesn't that doesn't the scripture said that you're all gods? That's John 1034 and following. So it's present in the Old Testament, it's present in the New Testament and then it sort of disappears. Except for one obscure 4th century Persian Christian named Afriat. He seems to be the only one. At least that I'm aware of that says, Oh yeah, we call Jesus God in the same sense that Moses was called God and he's comfortable to stop there and not say, and also because he has a divine nature. Or, and also because he preexisted or whatever, he doesn't talk about that in his writing. His books are called the demonstrations. I'm referring to #17. OK, so if Christians were calling Jesus God and they didn't mean he's God because he represents God, then what did they mean? So you have the Hebrew worldview, but a lot of these early Christians are not coming at it from a Hebrew perspective. They're coming at it from a Greco Roman perspective. And to answer this question, we have to familiarize ourselves with how Greco-roman people. Thought about gods? Because they had a lot of thoughts about gods and a lot of the people who joined Christianity were not Jewish. In fact, after Paul's successful missionary trips, the church is overwhelmingly Gentile and gentiles come to the faith as converts with their own presuppositions, their own theological understandings of what it means to be a God. And the sorts of things that happen in the world. I agree with Michael Bird, who said Christian discourses about deity belong incontrovertibly in the Greco-roman context because. Was it provided the cultural encyclopedia that, in diverse ways shaped the early church's Christological Conceptuality and vocabulary? It's especially important for us because, like I mentioned before, so many converts were coming into Christianity so quickly. Especially in the late 1st century and in the 2nd century from non Jewish backgrounds. So what is the Greco Roman mindset? Well, gods can descend and humans can ascend. In other words, humanity fied, gods and deified humans. I don't think the word humanity is a real word. Just for the record, but. Like it just seemed to fit there. Let me give you an example. Here is Apollo and this is from Euripides. We read House of Admetus and you I brought myself to taste the bread of menial servitude. God though I am. Zeus was the cause. He killed my son Sleepiest, striking him in the chest with the lightning bolt and an anger at this I slew the Cyclops who forged the Zeus's fire. As my punishment for this, Zeus compelled me to be a serf in the House of immortal. I came to this land and served as a herdsman to my host, and I have kept this House safe from harm to this hour. Gods can come down. That's what they believed. Alright. I'm not asking you to believe this. My question is, what did people in that world, especially a random person from the first half of the 2nd century, somebody in the late 1st century before more developed theological Christian ideas came to the the for. What would they have? Thought if they heard about Jesus or if they. Heard somebody calling Jesus? God, what would they? What? What would they think? Well, they're like, oh, yeah. Well, Apollo got. Sent down to Earth and became a human being for a time and served in this gentlemen's house. And you know, Admetus was good to Apollo even though he didn't know he was Apollo. And so Apollo rewarded him greatly and was able to help the. Man cheat death. Although he had to sacrifice his wife, so it's. Not such a great. Trade off anyhow. Here's another example from the Roman context, I say Greco-roman because we have Greeks and Romans, but it's all kind of meshed together and of course the Romans called Zeus Jupiter. This is from Ovid. He writes Jupiter once came here disguised as immortal and with him his son, the Messenger Mercury Wand and wings set aside. Looking for shelter and rest? They called it 1000. Homesteads 1000 doors were bolted against them. One house, however, did make them welcome a humble abode with a roof of straw and marsh Reed, one that knew its duty to gods and men here. Good. Philemon and Bacchus had happily passed their youth. And here they had reached old age, enduring their poverty light. This is a lovely tale about an elderly married couple, Filemona Abacus, who receive Jupiter and Mercury, who they seem to think are just travelers, and they're incredibly hospitable to them, and after they. Pull out all. The stops to make them a meal and make them feel comfortable. Even though they're incredibly poor, Jupiter and Mercury take them on a walk and they go up a mountain as they're on their way up the mountain. They turn. Back and they see. That Jupiter has flooded the entire region and killed all of their neighbors and their house alone is left to stand as punishment. For the sin of. Not being hospitable to the gods. And so then you get this genie question, Jupiter turns to Philemon Abacus and says to them. Ask what you wish and we'll do it for. To you. And so they replied. Make us priests in your temple. And So what happens is they they're they're looking at their house from this mountain and it's surrounded by a flood all around it. And their house transforms into a temple and say, oh, make us priests in your temple. And one other thing, let us die at the same time. Really sweet. Love story of two older folks that are just so happy to be together. So yeah, they become priests in the temple, which was their old house. And when it comes time to die, they're they're standing out in front of their house and and suddenly they're their their skin turns barky and they start growing into trees and they literally get covered with bark. And they and they, they kind of say. Farewell to each other as they become trees. Look, this is not your culture. This is not your religious story, right? But this is the sort of. Story that drives people. Perhaps even unconsciously, in the ancient world. What does it? Tell them. Be nice to strangers because you could be entertaining gods. And gods can hook you up. Later on, Ovid reports that people would visit this temple and they'd see these two trees, and they'd be like, oh, that's Philemon and Baucus and they'd hang wreaths on them. And there was even a saying, let those who are loved by the. Gods be God. And those who have worshipped be worship. Which kind of leads me into my next point, which is that humans can go up. Yes, gods can come down. I just gave you 2 examples of that Apollo and Jupiter and Mercury as well. So 3 examples of that. But humans can also go up. Let me give you a quick rundown of some of those stories. Pericles, whom you may know is Hercules, was a hero with a divine beginning. And supernatural strength. And after he died, he ascended into heaven. And to this day is considered a God. In the Greco Roman mythology and Pharis, same deal he he gets deified. He's a seer who died in battle. Zoraster was a. Persian prophet and he survives the fire and later was deified. Orpheus rescued a ship by praying to the gods and was subsequently deified. Epimenides slept in a cave for 57 years. Sometimes I feel like that would be really great and you're not getting a full night's sleep, right. If you slept in a cave for 57 years, that's a long nap and then he woke up and he was fine, allegedly, and predicted A ceasefire with Persia and subsequently was deified. And then Pythagoras, Pythagoras is one of the most overpowered ancient people that I've ever encountered. It's like this guy did like him and. Apollonius of Tiana. Like those are two of the big heavy headers of the Greco Roman world and of of humans who gets deified. But Pythagoras, whose theorem you probably had to learn in school, was way more than just a triangle master, you know, he also he also was a philosopher. And so they. The stories they tell about Pythagoras is that he's. A son of Apollo and a. Mortal woman. Hmm. So he's the son of God. That's interesting. And he reincarnated through many lifetimes and he was given the gift of remembering his previous lives, and so he would would talk about his previous lives in great detail as Pythagoras, though he tamed a bear, persuaded an ox to stop eating beans. Farmer was particularly annoyed with this ox. And accurately predicted a catch of fish. And after he predicted how many fish were in the catch. You know, of course. Then they had to count to see if he was right and that took forever. And these fish are on land all this time and they throw them back in the water. And guess what? They all swam away. They were miraculously still alive after they counted them. And subsequently after his death, he is hailed as a God as well. And pedicles, Asclepius, the healer and Apollonius of Tiana all worked miracles and were deified. Of course, rulers were deified as well, including Egyptian Pharaohs Alexander the Great, Antiochus, the first of Commagene. Julius Caesar, Augustus Claudius, Vespasian Domitian, Nerva, and many more, and in my paper I have the citations for all of these references, so that you can chase them down if you're interested on my website, restitutio.org. So now that we've attuned ourselves to here with Greco-roman ears just a little. Bit just so. You are thinking in categories that they would think with. Now let's consider the story of Jesus or just the highlights. The major events in the life of Jesus that people would be telling each other. About, say in the late 1st century early. Century, which is kind of my period of particular interest for this project. So the miraculous birth, before we look at the Greco Roman perspective, let me approach it from a Hebrew perspective, right. So you have the miraculous birth, you have Jesus's miracles, you have his transfiguration, you have his resurrection and ascension. None of this is weird from a Jewish perspective. Everything in here you have parallels to think with within Jewish literature both the Old Testament plus lots of other literature that they have produced. So for example, the miraculous birth. That's standard for Old Testament heroes, right? Let's see. Sarah couldn't have any children. She was barren and she was able to have Isaac and then Isaac's wife, who was that? Rebecca. Rebecca couldn't have children, and she had to pray. And then she was able to have this miraculous birth as well. And Samuel, right. Samuel's mother was Hannah. And who does who does Mary point to? When she utters her, her Magnificat, you know her praise to God, she it's loaded with Hannah's original utterances, right? If you, if you look at the parallels between what Mary says and what Hannah says, you know, because they're these are similar. They're not identical, but they're similar kinds of. Things you know, God intervenes. In women's lives so that they can have kids in the Bible. So we can say there are significant differences. Too, but there are. Parallels, you can conceive of it within that worldview very easily. Jesus is a miracle baby. OK, well, that reminds me of Hannah. And Samuel, what about miracles? Well. The Hebrew Bible is full of prophets. Right. There's actually a whole section of it called the prophets, and these prophets perform healing even a couple of resurrections in the Old Testament. Resurrection is the ultimate healing. Could you agree? With that. Moses, Elijah, Elijah performed many miracles. Moses experienced the transfiguration. Have you ever thought about? He went up to the mountain and he was transfigured. He was what illuminated such that when he came down he was shining. He had to wear a. Veil because people were so. Uncomfortable with how shiny he was. After spending time on. The mountain with God. What about ascension? Well, Elijah ascended in Chariots of fire. Then you have other Jewish texts outside of the the Old Testament where it talks about Moses ascending or the Book of Enoch talks about Enoch living in heaven. There's lots of parallels to think with, and so a Jewish person hearing the story of. Jesus would ask him or herself the question. I've heard of a lot of these elements before, but to have all of this in one person is unprecedented. Could he be the Messiah? That's that's what a Jewish perspective would think. I imagine hearing the story of Jesus, or at least these events from his life. What would a Greco-roman person think? What would a convert think? Well, I I want. To give credit where credits due. I came across this. Book by M David Litwa called. Yesus Deus and it goes through a lot of these parallels, so I'd recommend you looking at that if you're interested in chasing down these a little bit in more detail. He's a little more focused on the 1st century than I am. I'm more interested in the period after the New Testament. So we might have some disagreements there, but let's run it through. Let's talk about the miraculous birth. Well, Apollo impregnated and Fictiony, who gave birth to Plato. Did you catch that? Plato didn't have a human father. According to this myth, neither Pythagoras nor Asclepius had human fathers Celsius. Says the ancients attributed divine origins to Perseus and Amphion, Iliacus and Minos as well. Let me give you 1 little quote from Phyllis Stratos on the incarnation of a God here it is. This is the God Proteus and Egyptian God. This is from the life of Apollonius of Tyana. Apollonius is a famous healer and prophet, not from a Jewish background of Greco-roman background. Anyhow, we read when his apollonius's mother was still carrying him. She had a vision of an Egyptian divinity Proteus who changed his shape in Homer. She was not at all frightened, but asked him who her child would be. He replied myself. When she asked, who are you? He said Proteus, the Egyptian God. And then when it was time to give birth, the mother of Apollonius. Went out into a field and she fell asleep as a very pregnant woman and while she slept, Swans surrounded her. They made a ring around her and they all lifted their wings at the same time and at once. Made a jolting noise. And the baby just came right out and. She gave birth. To Apollonius, seems like a really great way to do it, I guess, and the locals reported that they saw a lightning strike and the Lightning came all the way down, but it didn't quite touch the. Earth. It stopped it. Hung. And then it receded back into heaven. And so they concluded from that that this must be a really special baby again. I don't believe any of this stuff. Happened. I I don't care if you do either, but. This is their world. These are their stories, their movies, their literature. Right. The This is their culture. This is how they think. Now you're going to tell them a story about a virgin who had a visit from an Angel and then gave birth without ever being with a man. What are they going to think? Well, they're going to think this. This is probably going to be a story about a God or a human who is destined to become a God because we've got lots of stories of similar things. All right, let's look to the next point on miracles and healing. Orpheus and Empedocles calm storms. Pythagoras foretold the number of fish in a catchment they mentioned earlier. Pythagoras did a lot of other things too. Apollonius of Tyana did a lot of a lot of this similar things to Jesus. He foretold the future. He knew people's thoughts and cast out demons and pedicles, Asclepius, and Apollonius all raised the dead. So, as Barry Blackburn. Noted in his dissertation, Gentiles correlated miracle working with divine status. That's a standard move for Greco-roman people is to hear a story about a miracle or to witness a miracle and say. Are you a God? Because that sort of thing happened in their. Stories all the time. Whereas in from a Jewish perspective, nobody's thinking Moses is God or Elijah or Elijah. You know, they're they're men empowered by God, those with whom God is working to achieve his goals, his. Agents. All right, let's look at Transfiguration. So you're Greco-roman person. You don't believe in Christianity, but you're hearing the story for the first time. And they tell you about the transfiguration. Jesus goes. Up on a. Mountain, he becomes very shining and the voice comes from heaven. Right. That's the transfiguration. You know what I'm talking about. All right, so Apollo. Is on a ship. He looks just like a normal human being, and then the ship gets to land and he leaps off the ship and suddenly his skin and his body starts emitting flashes of fire like a star. Or what about Aphrodite, who manifested herself in shining garments, shimmering like the Moon or Demeter, who transformed herself? Let me read to you this one about Demeter. This is from the Homeric hymns, and forsaking the God's assembly and tall Olympus mount for a long time through human cities and rich tilled. Fields she went effacing the signs of her beauty. So this is a God slumming it among humans. It goes on. So when she had spoken, the goddess altered her stature and form. So later on in the story, the God reveals herself to this one particular household. So she had spoken. The goddess altered her stature and form, casting old age away and round about her. Then beauty began to be breathed A delightful perfume. Spread from the fragrant robes that she wore, a radiance shone out far from the goddess's immortal flesh to her shoulders, golden hair streamed and the solid made house was filled with a light. Like the lightning flash. So this is. A story that they would have been familiar people were telling and they're familiar with. Oh, did you hear the one? About Demeter and how she. Appeared as an old woman, and she lived among the people. And then when she revealed herself, it was done with this reverse aging, rapid reversal process, where suddenly she becomes young and beautiful. And her hair and her robes transform. And then everything shines and the light is filled with brightness. These are their stories. So now you're going to tell the story about Jesus going up on the mountain and. They're like, oh, so. You're saying this is a God? Because that's what we that's what we know. Is true with. All other transfiguration stories in our culture. So let me summarize just a little bit here. Greco-roman people who heard about. Jesus. Miraculous birth about his miracles. I mean Jesus even had miracles over nature. He healed people. He cast out demons, he raised the dead right. These are every one of these would hit a Greco-roman person as an indication that we're talking about a God. How much more the Transfiguration and the Ascension? Let's go to Ascension now. Heracles was burnt to death and then ascended to heaven. Incidentally, I should mention this when it comes to Greek myths or Roman myths. There's always two or three or four versions. OK, so it's not like there's one historically. Accurate just depends on who you're reading, so there are other versions of. All of these where? This doesn't happen or happens in a different way. Just to clarify. But anyhow, Heracles in in one incident was burned to death and then ascended to heaven. Asclepius was struck by lightning and rose into heaven. After his death, Romulus, the mythical founder of Rome. Ascended into heaven in whirlwind and so forth. So. These are all. Things that Greco-roman people would see as indicators of deity. Now, isn't it interesting? That many Christians today read the Gospels from more of a Greco Roman perspective than from a Jewish perspective. You know this instinct to say Ohh well he he did a miracle. So he must be a God. That's not from the Hebrew worldview. That's not where they let me. Let me show you a clear contrast here. So at in Matthew 9 verse 8 Jesus heals the paralytic and it says when the crowd saw it they were afraid and they glorified. God, who had given such authority to men, that's a Jewish response to seeing an astounding once in a lifetime event. This guy was brought in on a stretcher. And now he walked. Leaving the house. And their conclusion was God has given authority to men to do this. What about a Greco Roman crowd? Well, how about Paul and Barnabas? Who do? Something very similar a. Slightly less epic. Because it just says the guy was lame. It doesn't say that he was totally paralyzed, so not quite at the level of what Jesus did, but nonetheless, we read in Acts 1411 and when the crowd saw what Paul had done. They lifted up their voices, sang in Laconian. The gods have come down to us in the likeness of men. Barnabas they called Zeus and Paul Hermes because he was the chief speaker and the priest of Zeus, whose temple was at this entrance to the city, brought oxen and garlands to the gates, and wanted to offer sacrifice with the crowds. Now I have read this story many times. I'm sure many of you have as well and I have thought to myself. What silly superstitious. Weirdos. I mean, come on. I've I've been very uncharitable in my mind that these people care. They've been dead a long. Time, but like I've been very uncharitable. Reading this thinking my stuff, these people are idiots. To thank, Paul and Barnabas are gods, you know, like what are you? You know, I've got some stuff that I'd like to sell you as. Well, you know. You're that gullible, shoot, but after learning about their stories. Ohh my goodness, this makes perfect sense. Of course, if you saw a miracle you wanted to play it safe. Assume that this is another visit of Jupiter. Which is another name for Zeus. Or Hermes and Mercury and and these other gods that that couldn't come down. And, you know, you saw a miracle. So there's something divine. These can't be normal people. That's their assumption. They don't have this Jewish concept of God working within somebody as his agent, as strongly as we see in the the Bible itself. And so they had heard stories of God's visiting people. And so I think they were just to be clear, I think they were wrong. To try to worship Paul. And Barnabas. But they weren't crazy. They were simply interpreting what they saw within their theological framework. And that's what their theological framework compelled. Them to do. So that's the theory. Early converse to Christianity. We're mishearing the story of Jesus and starting to call Jesus a God based on their theological background. But do I have any actual evidence of that? I'm glad you asked. We've got 4 main pieces of evidence. I'm sure there there are plenty of others, and I want to go through these each in turn, so there's kind of a weird story about Emperor Tiberius that floats around in Christian circles, from Tertullian and Eusebius. Tertullian writes in the late 2nd century and early 3rd century, and Musubis writes in the early quarter of the 4th century so. These are later. After the time of Jesus, 102 hundred, 300 years later. And they tell a story that Tiberius heard about Jesus. Tiberius was the emperor when Jesus was in his ministry. OK, so Tiberius heard about Jesus. He heard stories or reports about the miracles that Jesus had done and that Jesus had risen from the dead. And then Tiberius, the Emperor of the Roman emperor, went to the Senate and petitioned to deify Jesus. OK, I I doubt this ever happened, right? Doesn't matter. That's not my point. My point is not history here. It's the mindset getting into the mindset right. This is the sort of thing that would make sense in their world, that if you did hear about a miracle worker of some sort, you would. Then the Senate to DF, because there's like a process of deification for the Roman emperor, so that he's like, well, let me just see if let's get this guy. Deified too, and he. Petitions that according to this story, So what is that? That's Tertullian and Eusebius saying that outsiders non Christians. Hearing about Jesus, we're likely to think he was a man. Who deserved deification? Feel like it's pretty solid evidence of. That plenty of the. Younger was a governor in Bethenia. He's my second witness to this, he famously said they had met regularly, talking about the Christians he arrested and tortured. He said they had met regularly before dawn on a fixed day to chant versus alternately amongst themselves in honor of Christ. As if to a God. Now, if I had a nickel for every time an apologist pointed to this quotation of plenty of the younger of Roman governor and said, see. Everybody knew that the Christians believed in the deity of Christ, and of course by deity of Christ, what they mean is that he is of the same essence or substance as the. Father Co Equal and Co eternal. He's a person of God and you know the whole Trinitarian definition of what deity means. And it's like there's no way you. Can get that from this. This is. Simply an outside perspective, who sees a community of people in his area he doesn't like. This community of people. He's nervous about them. He arrests them. He tortures them to find out the truth because everyone in the ancient world knows that unless you torture someone, you can't believe anything they say. Especially if they're low born. Of course, today we know the opposite, that if you torture. Someone you. Just you just get what you want to hear. Because they want. You to stop torturing them, but. Anyhow, so he tortures these. People and he's like, alright. So what? What is your religion? What is this new religious movement you? Know like what is it all about and he's like. Yeah, I just found out they like to wake up early and sing songs to this man who has ascended. He's he's a man immortalized living in heaven. Look, they have a category for that. Sort of a being. It's called a God. That's just what a God. Is a human being. Immortalized who lives in heaven just is a God. From that perspective, there's that's the word they use for that sort of a being. And there are other beings in his heaven that he would also believe in plenty the younger. And so I. Think that's really what's going on here. It can't be used to say Jesus was divine and a Trinitarian. Sense. That's just too anachronistic. What about my next point there? The Infancy Gospel of Thomas, that that will make for some good reading. No wonder that one thing in the Bible, Jesus is kind of a jerk and it all it talks about him as a baby and as a little child. And he's impetuous and powerful. Kind of a smart. Like way smarter than his teachers and you know, throughout the book, the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, which is also 2nd century, various people will ask the question. Ohh could he be a God? Could he be an Angel? Could he be a God who's come down to visit us? Or an angels come down to visit us, especially after he raises an infant from the dead in Chapter 17? Or he raised a construction? And back to life in Chapter 18, the crowds wonder, is he from heaven? This is a standard approach. As soon as you move away from the Jewish mindset, this is how people would think about somebody who's capable of doing miracles like this, David Litwa writes. The spell of the logos could only bewitch a very small circle of Christian elites in infancy gospel of Thomas we find a Jesus who is divine according to different canons. The canons of Popular Mediterranean theology. Moving on then to the Theodosian ANS in Rome, these are people that agreed with Theodotus, the the founder, who was a Biblical Unitarian who lived in Rome. And so this group of Christians claimed that they held the original Christology. And that so did the church in Rome. Until the Bishopric of Zepherina AUS Zephyrus reigned from 199 to 217. So the claim reported by CBS about the theodosian's is that these Christians, they believed in the virgin birth, but they didn't believe that Jesus was God and. They lived in Rome and they claimed that they had the original beliefs and that it got corrupted in the church. And UC bias kind of laughs at that and tries to disprove them. None of that's important for me, for right. Now what you see this also says about the Theodosius. This group of Unitarian Christians, 2nd century Unitarian Christians is. That some of them. Believed Jesus was deified in his ascension in his resurrection and ascension. And so the idea is that. He became a God. This is exactly how CBS puts it. He became a God after he rose from the dead. So that is. The idea of apotheosis. This is an idea that kind of dominates in Orthodox Christianity. By Orthodox I mean Greek Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox. It's kind of interesting to see. It's already there among the Theodosian. ANS so. What would they believe about Jesus? They would believe that Jesus began to live as a human. He didn't pre exist. He lived his life and then he died. He was raised from the dead and ascended into heaven, where he's deified. He has become a lower case G God. He is not equal to the father. He's not eternal. Going back in time, but he's eternal going forward in time so that that would be another example of sort of a Greco Roman approach to the and this was in all the theologians either it's just some of them it says. In the text all. Right. One last point on evidence for early Christians thinking about. Jesus, in a Greco-roman way, is coming from Justin Martyr, Justin Martyr writes in the. One fifties, one 60s and so forth. And then Aaron answer it's about one 80s. So like Justin and Erin ants are really kind of like The Pioneers of this logos theology that takes over and then it kind of develops in the 3rd century. It becomes more complicated. But in the time of Justin, he's comfortable to say the following. He says we propose nothing new or different from that which you say about the so-called Sons of Jupiter. By your respected writers. And what about the emperors who die among you, whom you think worthy to be deified? This is Justin Martyr saying to his Pagan audience, like, hey, we're just saying the same thing you're saying, what's the big deal? Why you persecuting us? Why? Why you hating on us, you know, look, we are saying of Jesus the same thing that you're saying about the so-called. Tons of Jupiter or Zeus. Just as comfortable making that analogy later, Christians would not be comfortable making that analogy. Later Christians would would have an overwhelming urge to say. Yeah, but Jesus is. Way better and they're just demons. Right. But at the time of Justin, he's. Early enough that. It's like, yeah, I could kind of think along with that. He readily accepted the parallels with Mercury, Perseus, Asclepius, Bacchus and Hercules. But he argued that Jesus was superior to the. Nevertheless, he considered Jesus to be in a place second to the unchanging and eternal God, and he would call the Father the most true God, whereas the son is he who quote came forth from him. So the father is the most true God, and Jesus is the one or the the son is the one who. Came forth from him. Alright, so back to our original question. If you asked a random Gentile Christian in the 2nd century, what do you mean when you say Jesus is God or Jesus is a God? What do you mean? It depends on who you ask. It really depends on who you ask. If you ask Jewish Christian this, they're going to give you a totally different answer will probably sound a lot like Afro hot the Persian. Ohh yeah, we we we're comfortable calling Jesus a God because Moses was called a God and Jesus is. Greater than Moses. If you ask a you know just a random person who heard stories about Jesus, maybe they're not even in the church. They just kind of like know. About him, they be like, Oh yeah, he's he. He's a. God, he's like Asclepius. He heals people. Or maybe they would say. Oh yeah, he's he's a God. I mean, he's ruling in heaven, just like the Roman emperors get deified. You know, he he died, and then he's now a God in heaven. Or if you ask a docetic Christian, they would say, well, he's a God, come down like Apollo, who just appeared in human form. But it wasn't really a human being. Or the Gnostics would say ohh he's a spirit who came down and possessed of flesh and blood, body of a man named Jesus. In order to achieve salvation and then escaped and went back to heaven before his crucifixion. Or if you ask the Theodosius, they would say ohh yeah he's a God because he's been deified by virtue of his resurrection and ascension, and we too can look forward to getting deified when we're resurrected. Saying Jesus was of. The same being as the father, though distinct in person, just wasn't an option in this time period. Nobody talked that way. And so to read it back in, it's just not a historically responsible answer to the question. What do you mean when you say Jesus is a God? In the quest to specify the various stages of development in the christologies of the anti Nicene period, this Greco-roman perspective may just provide one of the missing links between the reserved and limited way that the New Testament applies. Theos to Jesus in the 1st century and the homoousion view that eventually. Honored Imperial support in the 4th. Country how easy would it have been for fresh converts from the Greco Roman world to mishear the story of Jesus? How easy would? It have been for them to fit Jesus into their own categories of descended gods and ascended humans, and who would correct this misunderstanding? The obvious and. Is, well, Jewish Christians, of course. Jewish Christians approach the Bible from a Hebrew perspective. They can explain to the Gentile Christians what it really is talking about. It's not trying to say Jesus is God is trying to say that Jesus is God's Messiah, God's anointed 1, empowered by God's spirit to do all these great things. On God's behalf. But where were the Jewish Christians? Seems like they were locked away in the east and they didn't have much of an influence after the 1st century, at least in much of Christian development. In the 2nd century. I don't want to. Say none but. We don't really have much evidence of that approach or that correction being made. With the unmooring of Gentile Christianity from its Jewish heritage, is it any wonder that Christologies began to drift out to? See still for us today in this room and those of you who watch this online, what is our task? Our task is to read the the Gospels to read about Jesus in a historically accurate way. And to be historically accurate is to not read. In Greco Roman mythology into a Jewish rabbi and a Jewish Messiah. Thank you for your attention.

Kegan Chandler:
Thank you, Pastor again, for that engaging. And insightful presentation. One of our audience members asked. I've been a Unitarian for 30 years, and I'm just now learning more of what you're talking about. Unitarians always seem to focus on the Hebrew worldview with little to no focus on understanding the Greco-roman culture. And worldview in which Christianity emerged. Why do you think this might be?

Sean Finnegan:
Well, you focus on the. Cure and not the disease, I suppose. If the problem is Greco-roman infiltration of foreign ideologies into Christian belief, then the cure would be to get your mind into the worldview of the biblical authors themselves who approach things from a Jewish perspective. I think we have to be careful to not overdo it because. After all, the New Testament was written in Greek, wasn't written in Hebrew. I mean, there might be some debate about Matthew, but you know the other 26 books, you know, pretty, pretty solid evidence. They're all written in Greek, 1st and. You know they're interacting with. Greek people, especially the church pistols, are written to cities in a Greco-roman context, so you know it. It is actually extremely important for New Testament studies to come to grips with. The Greco Roman. World, you know the architecture, the archaeology, the culture. I mean, the more you can. Know the better. That is very helpful. But maybe some of us are hesitant to think about things from that perspective because we have seen things get distorted because of that.

Kegan Chandler:
Excellent. Thank you very much. There were a few questions along these lines, so I'm going to combine several of them. Could we offer a definition of deification since this is not necessarily a biblical category for describing Jesus, is there a way that you might offer us a definition of deification? From a Unitarian Christian perspective.

Sean Finnegan:
We could say that any human who has been granted immortality, I think just like as a base level, that would be an indication of what we mean by deification. Some human being who's no longer capable of dying. That's, you know, that would be deification from their perspective. People who who do miracles are not deified, but it indicates that they might get deified or that they already are a God who's come down. So I don't think miracles would be a good indication. I'm not personally all that comfortable with saying Jesus is a God who lives in heaven like the Theodosia. It's not really my categories, but I can see where they're coming from and I don't think it defies biblical Unitarian understanding to say Jesus is a God in that lowercase G sense, and that's it. It certainly is what the theologians were doing. Furthermore, I don't know if there's going to be a question on this, Keegan. Or not, but I'll just throw it out there. There are scholars like David Litwa and others who are very happy to say that this is the explanation for and Andrew Perriman especially. That he makes a case. For Philippians 2 six through 11 that this is actually calling Jesus a God, that he's in the form. Of a God, right? And that it's actually a Pagan reading, you know from. Philippi, which is. A Roman colony. That they would recognize Jesus as a God in a lower case, G sense and Paul is using that. I've just tried to stay away from any New Testament stuff, just focused on the church history side because I think it is very strong there, but it there is a question that you know, depending. On how well. Jerry does and disabused us of the Granville Sharp rule next. You might read Titus 213 as. You know, in other instance of. Recognizing that Jesus who? At the time of the writing of Titus would be living. In heaven immortalized and is being called to God.

Kegan Chandler:
Thank you, pastor. My next question is this the Pagan gods who became Incarnate by miraculous birth. They are not supposed to be real humans, are they? But just gods disguised as humans. Wouldn't all of this point them towards a docetism about Jesus?

Sean Finnegan:
It depends on how you really think about docetism. If you're going to take. More of like a traditional gnostic view of docetism. Then I think you're going to say Jesus is the sort of being who walking along the beach would leave no footprints in the sand. That's not really what they the Greek myth said about the gods coming down. You know they they had weight. They could have intercourse. You know they're. Very tangible, even though they were. And they did, you know, they produced a lot. I think it would be. There would be a difference there. The the Greek myths about God's coming down they they they appeared as humans and they functioned as humans. Whereas the docetists I think would say Jesus looked like a human, but like. He'd be more of like a ghost or spirit, or a hologram, something like that.

Kegan Chandler:
Excellent. Thank you. You've obviously pointed to many parallels in the Greco Roman world to this narrative of Jesus. Do you think any of the four gospel writers arranged their biographies of Jesus in ways to intentionally point to some of these Greco-roman parallels? Or do you believe that these parallels are merely coincidental?

Sean Finnegan:
Well, I should be careful to say that the Apollonius material is after Christ, so I think to say that that influenced it. It would be hard since it didn't happen yet as far as I know, I'm less inclined to go in that direction. Influence is a funny thing. You might you might find yourself using words. Like the like, the word disabuse, which I just used a minute ago in your conversation later today. And you didn't say to yourself. Well, shoot, I really wanna use the word disabuse today. But, like, we're all being influenced all the time. Right. And so it could be that the gospel authors are being influenced by stories they're hearing about what the pagans believe and so forth, without intentionally trying to pull those strings or or make those, you know, resonances with the culture, we're all influenced by the culture in which we live. Whether we like it. Not. And so I think you can have influence without intention. And I think the better approach for reading the Gospels is from a second Temple Jewish perspective than a Greco-roman perspective, whereas like I. Mentioned before the. Epistles, I think are better read from a Greco-roman perspective than a Jewish perspective. But. The truth is, is both. And so you really should learn. About both as much as you can.

Kegan Chandler:
Great. Thank you. And we have time for one final question. Would it be fair to say that Greco-roman deification is basically the same as how Catholics describe becoming a St.

Sean Finnegan:
That's an interesting thought. I really want to say yes, I don't know. I guess I'd have to learn more about the canonization process for to become a St. in the Catholic. Church to know. To know how to answer that, I'm I'm leaning towards yes.

Kegan Chandler:
Great. So thank you very much, Pastor Finnegan. Let's give him a. Round of applause.

Sean Finnegan:
Well, that brings this talk to a close. What do you think? Come on over to restitutio.org and find Episode 521 the deity of Christ from a Greco-roman perspective, and leave your thoughts there. Obviously with this presentation I was somewhat narrowly focused on really just explaining what. The Greco Roman perspectives of deity were and how they could be applied to Jesus without even realizing. Obviously a lot more work could be done on this subject, and really the bigger project of tracing crystal logical development over time would take much more time. However, I did want to mention that a good friend of mine, Sam Tiedeman, has just done pretty much that. He has looked at the development overtime in a 2 hour special on his YouTube channel Slash podcast called Transfigured, in an episode called The Development and Diversity of Christology in early Christianity. So if you're curious to know more about the bigger picture, the wider sweep of development beyond the 2nd century and beyond. Just looking at this one narrow slice of Greco-roman theology and how it applies to Christology. Yeah, take a look at that. I think he did a really great job. I think a lot more work could still be done to trace even more of the data that is available in the Church fathers, but hey, it was already 2 hours, so you got to give him a break for that. Right. So take a look at that if you're interested. That's going to be it for today. Stay tuned for Future podcast episodes. I've got a number of interviews lined up, but since the Unitarian Christian Alliance released this talk that I had given at their conference, I figured I would post it here on my own. Podcast as well, just to kind of synchronize with that. So we'll be getting back to the interviews starting next week. Thanks everybody for tuning in. If you'd like to support.us.youcandothat@restitutio.org, we'll catch you. Next week and. Remember, the truth has Nothing to fear.